The Oldsmobile Connection

[Brando]

Just ordered some ceramic pads and drilled rotors.
I ordered them off of eBay:
Front Ceramic Brake Pads
Rear Ceramic Brake Pads
Drilled Rotors

Can't wait! 8) :lol:
Probably end up painting the calipers also.

TOC Admin
Brando

[88 Coupe]

Hi Brando, hello all,

Quote: ........... Just ordered some ceramic pads and drilled rotors .........
I just have to ask.

Why?

Regards, Norm

[Brando]

88 Coupe wrote: Hi Brando, hello all,

Quote: ........... Just ordered some ceramic pads and drilled rotors .........
I just have to ask.

Why?

Regards, Norm

Because they need to be replaced.... :lol:

TOC Admin
Brando

[88 Coupe]

Hi Brando, all

Quote: Because they need to be replaced....
Why not buy OEM replacements at the local parts store?
My guess is that they will cost less and I know they'll work better on the street.

The ceramic lining claim to fame is their resistance to fading. Until the point of fade is reached the OEM units are more efficient.
Actually until that point is reached, drum brakes are even more efficient.

If you're building race cars then please disregard. :lol:

Regards, Norm

[Brando]

I've been under the impression that ceramic pads last a long time/produce little to no dust and drilled rotors are less subjective to warping which is very common on intrigues. Is this not true? :?

TOC Admin
Brando

[Brando]

Here's a post from stroker:
http://www.oldsconnection.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3877#3877

I believe my choice in pads was a wise decision.... :?
I do have stock chrome wheels after all, the brake dust is an important factor to me.

TOC Admin
Brando

[88delta88]

I replaced my brakes with OEM cheapos... They stop my car quite well, but the dust is adhering to my aluminum wheels also. The wheel cleaner spray helps immensely. It also coats with teflon I beleive (PTFE) to protect. Who knows what long term effects it'll have, but it works for effortless removal of brake dust anyways!

[88 Coupe]

Hi Brando, all,

Quote: ........I do have stock chrome wheels after all, the brake dust is an important factor to me .............. I've been under the impression that ceramic pads last a long time/produce little to no dust and drilled rotors are less subjective to warping which is very common on intrigues ......... Confused
I don't see any confusion or contradictory statements in Strokers or any of these posts. They just need to be put in context.

As I remember, the holes in rotors were for an extra measure of brake cooling in race cars, and helped slightly with fade.
Brake fade is a non-issue in any of the TOC members cars.

I believe warping of rotors is due to poor driveing habits, as I have never experienced the phenomenon.
The drilled holes might be a little help for a rotor that is heated beyond it's design limits.

There is (and always has been) a tradeoff between hard (longer lasting) and soft (more efficient) friction materials.

When one chooses harder lining, for what ever reason, one is only giving up a few feet in a 60 to 0 panic stop, so it's not a big deal.

When I had the open type wheels, a weekly car wash took care of my brake dust.

As for your decision, I believe any informed decision is a right one.

Regards, Norm

[BigBlockOlds]

When it comes to brakes, you can't do any better than AC Delco. That is for a stock, unmodified car.

I just replaced the front brakes and rotors on my '98 Intrigue. The AC Delco pads were expensive ($80) but you get what you pay for. Less brake dust, no noise, long lasting, etc.

You also may want to rethink the cross drilled rotors. Those are considered by most of the serious autocross and road racing guys as worthless and just for show. They are more prone to cracking because of all of the holes that have been drilled in them. Not good.

Also, when I was checking for brakes I noticed there was a "heavy duty" option for the Intrigue. I checked the trunk SPID label and found that I had the standard duty.
I was curious about this HD option and wondered what it was that made it HD. I started checking around and found out that there was an Autobahn package available on the Intrigue. It increased the rotor size from 11" to 12" and also raised the speed limiter from 100 or 110mph to 128mph.
Very Intriguing. ;)

[speedy266]

I'll be doing a complete brake job this summer, and have came across KVR performance, which sells gas slotted and cross drilled rotors, finned drums, carbon fiber brake pads, bonded lining brake shoes and best part which i thought id never find, steel braided brake lines for my application. Havent decided wat exactly im going to get, ive heard carbon fiber brake pads are amazing, but dont last very long. I'll have to keep looking for a different material brake pads.

Cross drilled rotors come standard on all the top end cars so id imagine they do a better job than non slotted or cross drilled.

[BigBlockOlds]

speedy266 wrote: Cross drilled rotors come standard on all the top end cars so id imagine they do a better job than non slotted or cross drilled.

Nope. They do it for the looks generally because of the larger wheels that show the brakes.

Look at most of the serious race cars out there. Do they use cross drilled rotors?
Z06 Corvettes don't have them. Nor do Vipers, etc.

They're not needed. Especially for an '80's model Olds.

http://www.enjoythedrive.com/content/?id=6955

"A popular option with brake systems these days is slotted or cross-drilled rotors. Slotted rotors literally have slots running across their outside surface, while cross-drilled rotors have had holes drilled right through them. In the old days, particularly on race cars, when the brakes would get hot they would boil off a material in the brake pads. This gas would get trapped between the brake rotor and the pad, which would prevent braking. To release the gas, people began drilling holes in the brake rotor. Slotting the rotor is a newer technique that produces less stress on the metal, and therefore provides increased rotor longevity.

This phenomenon, known as outgassing, isn’t a problem for vehicles that are driven on the street. However, because brake rotors show through many popular wheel designs, companies do offer cross-drilled and slotted rotors as an option that looks racy.

Plus, cross-drilled rotors can provide a safety and performance advantage in wet weather. Most people’s brakes won’t work right after they drive through a puddle because water gets between the brake pads and the rotors. The holes in cross-drilled rotors actually give that water someplace to go, so the brakes will work right after you splash through a serious puddle."

Thats a lot of money to spend on rotors just becuase of a puddle.

http://www.baer.com/Support/FAQ.aspx#1

"What are the benefits to Crossdrilling, Slotting, and Zinc-Washing my rotors?
In years past, crossdrilling and/or Slotting the rotor for racing purposes was beneficial by providing a way to expel the gasses created when the bonding agents employed to manufacture the pads began to break down at extreme temperatures. This condition is often referred to as “green pad fade” or “outgassing”. When it does occur, the driver still has a good firm brake pedal, but simply little or no friction. Since this normally happens only at temperatures witnessed in racing, this can be very exciting!

However, with today’s race pad technology, ‘outgassing’ is no longer much of a concern. When shopping for races pads, or even ultra-high performance road pads, look for the phrases, “dynamic surface treatment”, “race ready”, and/or, “pre-burnished”. When these or similar statements are made by the pad manufacturer, the pad in question will likely have little or no problem with ‘outgassing’. Ironically more pedestrian pads used on most streetcars will still exhibit ‘outgassing’, but only when used at temperatures normally only encountered on the racetrack.

Although crossdrilling and/or slotting will provide a welcome path to expend any gasses when and if they develop, it is primarily a visual enhancement behind today’s often wide-open wheel designs.

Crossdrilling offers the greatest gas relief pathway, but creates potential “stress risers” from which cracks can occur. Baer’s rotors are cast with crossdrilling in mind, from the material specified, to curved vanes, behind which the holes are placed to minimize potential crack migration. Slotted surfaces are what Baer recommends for track only use. Slotted only rotors are offered as an option for any of Baer’s offerings.

Zinc washing is then done to provide a barrier, which resists development of surface scales or rust."

Just a few articles with one being from a major aftermarket brake supplier who provides slotted and drilled rotors.

[88 Coupe]

Hi BigBlockOlds, all,

Quote: ............... a "heavy duty" option for the Intrigue ................increased the rotor size from 11" to 12" ................ They do it for the looks ................
Good information.

Quote: ............... Look at most of the serious race cars out there. Do they use cross drilled rotors? Z06 Corvettes don't have them, nor do Vipers, etc ..............
The last race car I was close to, was a Viper in the process of a $200K race prep for competion at Le Mans. Although I was preoccupied with the induction and headwork required to make the power to turn it into a real racecar, the brakes were also getting serious upgrades.

My point is: It takes a lot to turn a corvette or Viper into a racecar that would encounter brake fade.
I don't think anyone with a car of that description would be visiting this forum.

When one confuses production cars (modified or stock) with race cars that require upgraded brake systems, one does a disservice to those seeking education.

To all: Have I mentioned yet that my knowledge comes from hands on experience, and the reading I do is to keep that knowledge up to date.

Regards, Norm

[speedy266]

The new C6 Corvette Z06 comes with cross drilled and vented rotors. The C6 Corvette with the Z51 performance package comes with cross drilled rotors as wel, but smaller in diameter than the Z06 ones. This Z06 is really good cause its more C6-R like, one of the drivers helped design the Z06. Six piston capilers with six individual pads for the front. The Z06 weighs less than the base vette even with the big 7.0L in it. Cant wait to see the Z06 numbers if the base can do 0-60mph in 4.2s.

http://www.corvettemuseum.com/specs/2006/index.shtml
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=9119&page_number=3

good articles on the Z06

"The large brakes bring an excellent level of stopping capability with the Z06, and with their four-wheel brake cooling, they provide excellent fade resistance and lining life during track duties."


I think cross drilled rotors on high performance production cars are fairly new, but they will be more and more common on mid performance cars with time.

I had personal experience with brake fade on an astro, hot summer day around 90F or so. from about 65mph to 0 was a close call for the other cars bumper. The rotors were pretty heated up from previous brakings i made, but when i needed em most they were so bad. Heavy van though, the last couple years of the astro they put 4 wheel discs, the efficiency of drums is just horrible.

[88 Coupe]

Hi speedy266, all,

Quote: The new C6 Corvette Z06 comes with cross drilled and vented rotors.
And they are highly visible thru the wheels. I'd say that makes them for show, and to promote the Corvette image.
A lot of these items are more to increase sales (and profit margins) than for performance gains.

I'll say again, not a race car.

Quote: ................The rotors were pretty heated up from previous brakings i made, but when i needed em most they were so bad..............

Are you saying you overheated your brakes before you actually needed them? :lol:

An attentive driver probably needs to use a vehicles full braking capacity only a few times a year. Less if he is not in the "Big City" as I am.

Regards, Norm

[speedy266]

A normal driver wouldnt have to, im not a normal driver, a normal driver would probably never have WOT nor go over the speed limit by much. Yah it sucks living in a big city, more traffic, traffic lights and more bad drivers.