The Oldsmobile Connection

[texasred]

Hey all,

The subject was actually brought up elsewhere on this board, but I thought I'd ask a seperate question rather than 'jack the thread.

What are y'alls opinions on the performance and durability difference between cross-drilled, slotted, and drilled and slotted rotors?

Thanks in advance.

C.J.

[88 Coupe]

Hi texasred, hello everyone,

Been wondering if you were coming back. I'm afraid to ask how you did at the drags.

Quote: ........ opinions on the performance and durability ........
The one with the most friction area is the best. If you had included a fouth option, no slots and no holes, it would have been best.

If excess heat is the concern, the brakes are too small for the application.

Regards, Norm

[texasred]

Norm,

I've been lurking...just enjoying your lessons in logic. :wink:

My fuel pump started to go south on me and I got spanked pretty bad. Kept running out of fuel at the top of each gear. I got a deal on a RobbMc 110gph fuel pump and it's in the mail now. (I had to wait and pay off Christmas bills first). But nothing hard broke and it was 75 degrees in December and a beautiful drive and I met lots of new people and had a ton of fun. :D

Right now the front end is off the car, media blasted and primed. I'm going to finish prepping the body this weekend and have it blasted and primed next week. Matador Red with white hood stripes is coming! 8-)

I'm thinking brakes will be needed soon...I can hear that telltale squeak from the front and the rotors also appear to be the originals. Just thinking about high-performance replacements. I'd rather over-build than under-build...especially when it comes to safety! :shock:

C.J.

[88 Coupe]

texasred wrote: ........ enjoying your lessons in logic ........
And to think I was afraid he didn't have an audience.

Quote: ........ RobbMc 110gph fuel pump and it's in the mail ........
Good move.

Quote: ........ Matador Red with white hood stripes is coming ........
Looking forward to seeing pics.

Quote: ........ I'd rather over-build than under-build ........
Haven't made a hard stop from anything over about 30 MPH, so I can't speak for my Cutlass. Had to make a hard stop from about 70 to 0 in my '64 A body once. It's a bit lighter than yours. '72 front disks stopped it well, but they started showing a little fade at about 10 MPH. Not bad for a stock setup.

Used the larger rotors off an '84 Olds 98 when I converted the Grey Coupe. Kept the original rear drums since they are the same as those used in the big cars through '64. Used the stock Master cylinder and no proportioning valve. MC is under the floor so it does need a residual valve.

When I was working on the last phases of dialing in the 431/Grey Coupe combo, I made as many as 8 passes in a 1/2 hour. All passes were under 12 sec, over 112 MPH, and I'm always in the brakes hard at the end of a pass. They always work flawlessly. As you may have heard, the car weighs just under 4000#.

At the risk of going off topic, I'll answer the more obvious questions.

Typical scenario on a Sunday Morning:
After a 40 mile freeway drive, I'd be close to first in line.
Might have to wait as long as 10 minutes for the gate to open at 8:00 AM.
Stopped at tech long enough to tell him I hadn't made any changes he needed to know about.
Drove to the front of the staging lanes.
In under five minutes I was making my first pass.
By about 8:45 AM the staging lanes would begin to fill.
By then I'd be finished and on my way home.

Rule of thumb: If you can lock up the wheels, you don't need more brake, you need more tire.

I suggest you go for the conversion to the big car rotors as discussed on ROP.

Keep in mind: Above is only my personal experience and I probably don't know WTF I'm talking about.

Ceramic pads aren't as effective as asbestos but are as good as, if not better than organic. They are cleaner and will last longer than either, so they are your logical choice. In case you missed it before, Slots or holes will wear out those ceramic pads quicker.

The last is from my local brake guy, so you can probably believe it.

Regards, Norm

[texasred]

88 Coupe wrote: texasred wrote: ........ enjoying your lessons in logic ........
And to think I was afraid he didn't have an audience. Come on Norm...you love the attention! :lol:

Quote: Rule of thumb: If you can lock up the wheels, you don't need more brake, you need more tire. I've heard that before. But I've also had problems with warped rotors after heavy use. Thought maybe eliminating some heat would be a good idea.

Quote: I suggest you go for the conversion to the big car rotors as discussed on ROP. Expense and time are against me. Plus I've heard it gives the car some "interesting" handling characteristics (understeer to lurching oversteer in the middle of anything beyond a gentle curve). That's from the V8buick board.

Quote: Ceramic pads aren't as effective as asbestos but are as good as, if not better than organic. They are cleaner and will last longer than either, so they are your logical choice. In case you missed it before, Slots or holes will wear out those ceramic pads quicker.

The last is from my local brake guy, so you can probably believe it. I've heard from several sources the organic pads are pretty much crap. And ceramic lasts the longest but asbestos is the cat's ass (I've wanted to use that phrase for quite a while now). But does ANYBODY still make asbestos pads?

Quote: Keep in mind: Above is only my personal experience and I probably don't know WTF I'm talking about. Oh, that's ALWAYS on my mind! :lol:

C.J.

[88 Coupe]

Hi texasred, all,

Quote: ........ But I've also had problems with warped rotors after heavy use. Thought maybe eliminating some heat would be a good idea ........
Friction material in the pads will be soft (efficient) or hard (long lasting). Bigger rotors may solve your warpage problems, different pads won't. Alternative is to lose a thousand, or so, pounds.

Warped rotors, with your combo, doesn't sound right. I'll need to check on possible causes.

Quote: ........ I've heard it gives the car some "interesting" handling characteristics (understeer to lurching oversteer in the middle of anything beyond a gentle curve). That's from the V8buick board ........
It does on G bodies. In the case of the A body, the spindles from the B body are supposed to improve handling as well as braking. I should have said, "as discussed on ROP, because I have no first hand experience with that conversion".

Quote: ........ But does ANYBODY still make asbestos pads? ........
Organic material was developed to replace asbestos for good reason. Not legal to use it in any way, shape, or form. Manufacturers are still paying large lung damage claims.

Regards, Norm

[texasred]

Heya Norm,

88 Coupe wrote: In the case of the A body, the spindles from the B body are supposed to improve handling as well as braking. Further research this doth require. Thanks for your help.

C.J.

[wood8176]

Hi guys,
There was an article on this spindle swap in the June 1990 Hot Rod Magazine called "Improved Knuckle Sandwich". I'm thinking about doing this myself. I have bad scanned copies of the article on my PC at work, but it involves switching out the spindles and discs from select 11" or 12" equpped b-bodies. The article also lists all the required parts numbers. If anyone has the article, maybe they could make it available? On my copy, I can barely make out the part numbers.
~Matt

[88 Coupe]

Hi wood8176, all,

Welcome to TOC.

Quote: ........ spindle swap in the June 1990 Hot Rod Magazine ........ If anyone has the article ........
I should have it, just need to dig it out. I'll put it up in pdf, when I do.

Aways be skeptical of anything you read in those mags. They don't always get it right.

Quote: ........ I can barely make out the part numbers ........
No "donor car" specs? I guess I'll find out.

Regards, Norm

[wood8176]

I've found the article online here.

Click on each of the five jpgs in the second set to enlarge the images.

Hope this helps.

~Matt

[88 Coupe]

Hi wood8176, all,

Thanks. My mag collection is buried, it would taken me a while to dig it out.

Regards, Norm

[texasred]

Hello Wood, Norm, and all.

I've seen the online article before using "specialty" a-arms and such. But I'm sure I've seen one using b-body parts. I just can't find it now.

Norm, ROP musta lst that stuff in hack 1 or 2. I couldn't find it.

C.J.

[88 Coupe]

Hi texasred. all,

Quote: ........ I've seen the online article before using "specialty" a-arms and such. .......
Saw them in the mags. Wasn't interested. Saved them," just in case".

Quote: ....... I'm sure I've seen one using b-body parts .........
Might have been more interested. I might have seen it anywhere, and it might even have been for G bodies.

Quote: ........ I couldn't find it.
So much for that.

Regards, Norm

[texasred]

Heya Norm, all,
88 Coupe wrote: My mag collection is buried, it would taken me a while to dig it out.
I'm not asking you to dig through your magazines (especially if they are "organized" like mine :shock: ) but if you happen to run across it, that'd be cool.

C.J.

[88 Coupe]

Hi texasred, all,

Quote: ........ if you happen to run across it, that'd be cool.
They're arranged by year and month, but they go back to the '70s and it's not that easy to get to them.

I can do it, if you can get me an approximate month and year.

Regards, Norm