The Oldsmobile Connection

[88 Coupe]

Hello everyone,

Could it be?

http://realoldspower.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15081&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

I knew it before ROP existed. Ask me why I didn't post it.

Regards, Norm

[Turbocharged400sbc]

i thought that all cast iron cranks were nodular iron....what are they saying? that they used different iron in the cranks?

what the one gentlman (83 Hurst guy) said jives with what i remember from my metalurgy/machining classes...so i understand that but i dont see olds doing anything that "special" fer production engines...

and what he posts in his second post is litterally the ONLY way to be able to compare the suposedly different materials apples to apples though you would still have too many factors out of your control to make it a truely "controlled" experiment (ie whether the batch control guy was drunk on the day that batch of N/n/Nak cranks was cast...) still doesnt matter...you cant know what HP/Tq the cast crank will fail at without first destructivly testing it...then of course you cant put it into your engine :lol:

whatever...the stock nodular crank in my turbocharged 400 sbc will be in there till i hit ~450-500Hp....then it's getting a 4340...not willing to take chances with nitrous on a stock cast crank, thats not ductile enough to handle the harmonics/loads etc. and risk it taking out my (fairly) rare 511 4 bolt main 400 casting...i just dont have the $ fer a World/Dart block...forged crank is cheap by comparison

on a dif note i remember my gramps telling me that in the old chryslers N on the crank meant it was cast on the night shift all other notations on the crank (journal size/undersize/date etc was marked in grease pen)...even though he worked for chrysler for 38 years its only hearsay...unless you were ther when the iron batch was mixed and poured...and you mixed it...lol

so i take it they are trying to find an "end all, be all" answer to the first posts question eh?

this should suffice:

cast cranks just shouldnt be pushed that hard...if you do then your taking your own risks...and spending your money twice...

done.

James

[88 Coupe]

Hi Turbocharged400sbc, all,

James: Should have known you wouldn't be familiar with the BS as it's been presented on ROP. Never doubted you'd know the metallurgy better than I.

While searching for a better thread to illustrate my point, I discovered the subject was already addressed.

Quote: I thought that all cast iron cranks were nodular iron ........
They are. Internet was the first place I'd ever seen cranks referred to as nodular, instead of cast. It's also where I learned I had been doing impossible things with my Grey Coupe.

On ROP, Oldsfan1 wrote: The N(large N, Small N, CN or no N) are all Cast Iron, cast from Nodular Iron ........ There is........ no difference in Iron Cranks as far as the metallurgy that went into making them even though, there have been well versed authorities making claims that a certain designation on a given Crank( N, CN, etc.) makes it better or worse than others ........
Not only did this answer the question, it's the first time (to my knowledge) anyone has actually come out and said it.

Quote: ........ what are they saying? That they used different iron in the cranks? ........
That's what has been said. The common belief on ROP, for years, has been, (I'm paraphrasing):
Use only a "nodular" crank. The one cast with the "N" is the strongest. Those with other marks are nodular and nearly as strong. Do not use an unmarked crank for a performance rebuild because it’s cast, not nodular.



Quote: ........ what the one gentleman (83 Hurst guy) said ........
As I discovered earlier today, he's one of several who have been trying to correct that misconception since about last October. He was the first to explain it fully.

Quote: ........ I don’t see Olds doing anything that "special" for production engines ........
Forged were used in all Olds V8s, from ‘49, to ’64, then in some ’65 to ’68s. All 330 and 400/425s were Steel. Only a few 455s were forged, as they found the (cheaper to manufacture) cast cranks to be more than up to the job. 67 was the last year for 330, and all 68 and newer BBOs used a 4.25" cast piece.

This one sold cheap.
This is a 330, but it fits all SBOs except the D/DX.

Quote: …….. cast cranks just shouldn’t be pushed that hard ........
More than one BBO is running low tens using a cast crank. Some have lasted longer than others.



On ROP, oldsmobile_al wrote: ........ The crank was stock mains, 2.200 rods 4.500 stroke ........ The crank was nodular cast iron, over 300 runs, 6200 rpm, 9.50@143 ........ The car is 3000lbs with me in it, the crower steel rods were 6.700 long at 760 grams, the pins were around 125 grams, the ross pistons were 584 grams ........ the 300 runs are over three years, it was taken apart each winter and looked over, the bearings look like new even now ........ straps and studs only.
For more on Al's paperweight, click here.

Regards, Norm

[1BadBird]

I guess I may be a little confused here. The original link to the ROP forum no longer works so I'm not certain as to its contents. Is the consensus here saying that cast iron is no different than nodular cast iron?
I've read similar claims that the nodular cast iron cranks are far superior to other 'non-nodular' cranks.

1BadBird

[Brando]

Huh...that's odd, when did ROP move and why?
But anways, here is the original topic over there: http://72.22.90.30/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15081&postdays=0&posto%20rder=asc&start=0

TOC Admin
Brando

[88 Coupe]

Hi 1BadBird, Brando, all,

I'm glad you brought this one back up. I had not read much past my own post on that thread. It got interesting after that.

Quote: ........ I've read similar claims that the nodular cast iron cranks are far superior to other 'non-nodular' cranks.
They would be, if your "non-nodular" cranks existed.

The explanation of the "N" on the casting came from the same guy who gave us the "Solid Main Web 403" and he provided about the same amount of documentation for both.

Brando wrote: ........ when did ROP move and why? ........
I don't think it was explained, but the changes were the reason they were down down recently.

Regards, Norm

[andrewk]

88 Coupe wrote: Hi 1BadBird, Brando, all,

I'm glad you brought this one back up. I had not read much past my own post on that thread. It got interesting after that.

Quote: ........ I've read similar claims that the nodular cast iron cranks are far superior to other 'non-nodular' cranks.
They would be, if your "non-nodular" cranks existed.

The explanation of the "N" on the casting came from the same guy who gave us the "Solid Main Web 403" and he provided about the same amount of documentation for both.

Brando wrote: ........ when did ROP move and why? ........
I don't think it was explained, but the changes were the reason they were down down recently.

Regards, Norm


It was explained in a hijacked thread of sorts. Apparantly the "nice butt" thread, or that and another popular thread took up all the sites availiable bandwidth, so they needed to switch servers. Took alot longer than expected... Hope this helps-

Andrew

[88 Coupe]

Hi andrewk, all,

Doesn't explain the changed URLs. Did one of the Hunt's post it?

Norm

[andrewk]

88 Coupe wrote: Hi andrewk, all,

Doesn't explain the changed URLs. Did one of the Hunt's post it?

Norm

Yes. It was Russel IIRC. I think he said why, but I'll have to go look it up.

Andrew