The Oldsmobile Connection

c_creations · Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:28 pm Post subject: gross lift

1969 olds 350 w/ stock pistons. Whats the maximum gross lift they will handle before the gap is to little.

88 Coupe · Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:08 pm Post subject: Re: gross lift

Your question is not clear enough for me to give you any kind of an answer.

Wait: I've been told that I don't know how to answer questions. That means the question is clear and the problem is me.

Maybe someone else can help you.

Norm

andrewk · Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 1228 Location: Ames, IA

c_creations wrote: 1969 olds 350 w/ stock pistons. Whats the maximum gross lift they will handle before the gap is to little.

You must mean by 'gap to little' that 'how close can I go before valves kiss pistons?'

I agree with Norm here, but I am bored, so I will try to clarify.

What the hell stock pistons have to do with maximum gross lift is beyond me. Its like asking what frosting has to do with the DOW Jones... Anyway, here are my thoughts, based on your question...

There are many things you need to know. First is your deck height. How far down the hole is the piston? What kind of piston do you have? There were dished stock pistons, and there were flat-top pistions. However, this may be irrevalant, as I believe your valve springs will be more of a limiting factor that the pistons for 'max gross lift'. Also, it sounds as if you want to jam the biggest cam possible into your engine without doing it the right way.

In order to make an engine more powerful, the objective is not to stick the biggest 'bump stick' in it and let the ass dyno tell you how powerful the engine is. If you jam a big cam in there, you will need bigger valves and head work, if you do the valves, you better do the intake and headers, if you do that, better make sure you get a better fuel pump and bigger carb, if you do all that, the stock bottom end wont be up to the task, so you'd have to beef that up, and then you are talking alot of power, so better have engine plates made to support the engine, and then you will need a better trans and rear end.... its all just a never ending cycle. Its all about a balanced combo that works together. Like having a converter and rear end that work with the cam, and having the bottom end strength for the horsepower you are producing.

It seems as if we have been over this all before, so I will stop now.

Maybe if you werent such a baby, you would understand this.

88delta88 · Joined: 09 Jun 2003 Posts: 2400 Location: Canada

hey andrewk, got a question for ya:

So exactly what does frosting have to do with the DOW jones?

andrewk · Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 1228 Location: Ames, IA

88delta88 wrote: hey andrewk, got a question for ya:

So exactly what does frosting have to do with the DOW jones?

I wondered if anyone would ask... Nothing really, other than the manufacturers that produce the frosting are in the NYSE. If the frosting werent there, it would have a signifigant impact, but its realtive importance is mimimal.

It was really a poor analogy now that I think about it...

88 Coupe · Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 10:32 pm Post subject:

OK. On the assumption he is asking about valve lift and piston kissing, a little rewording is needed in order to make a point.

Q: What the hell do stock (or any) pistons have to do with maximum gross lift?
A: About as much as frosting has to do with the DOW Jones.

andrewk wrote: ........ It was really a poor analogy ........
I respectfully disagree.

Continuing on the same asumption: His answer would be: .800" or so, depending on the specs of the cam he uses.

Now, going on the assumption he is asking about his 355, it doesn't have stock pistons in it.

Norm

andrewk · Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 1228 Location: Ames, IA

88 Coupe wrote: OK. On the assumption he is asking about valve lift and piston kissing, a little rewording is needed in order to make a point.

Q: What the hell do stock (or any) pistons have to do with maximum gross lift?
A: About as much as frosting has to do with the DOW Jones.

andrewk wrote: ........ It was really a poor analogy ........
I respectfully disagree.

Now that you worded it like that, it does make sense... If you look at the timestamp of that post, you'll see I was up way too late anyway. The brain does weird things then.

Theory: Since sleep deprivation can cause ones brain to run rampant and make litte to no sense most of the time, can it be assumed that 'ccreations' has not slept since he joined TOC? :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol:

88 Coupe · Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 3:50 am Post subject:

andrewk wrote: ........ If you look at the timestamp of that post, you'll see I was up way too late anyway ........
Have you ever noticed mine are all over the place? Only difference is, no one bothers to read my posts.

Quote: ........ can it be assumed that 'ccreations' has not slept since he joined TOC?
That could explain why I can't figure out how to communicate with him.

c_creations · Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 11:22 am Post subject:

um....... wondering who much lift you can have before you have pieces of valve all over the motor has nothing to do w/ wanting to stick the biggest cam in there. Did i say i was putting the biggest cam in there? no... Don't bother to mention how to figure it out or anything like using clay. and there must be a standard piston put in the stock motor with the equal precise cuts for the valves in them. but dont bother to answer the question just be cockasses thats cool.

um. also. i'd like to resign from this forum. so like, just delete me. k? thanks?

88 Coupe · Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 11:10 pm Post subject:

c_creations wrote: ........ wondering how much lift you can have before you have pieces of valve all over the motor ........
Now that you've asked the question more correctly, I can answer it more correctly.

88 Coupe wrote: ........ Continuing on the same asumption: His answer would be: .800" or so, depending on the specs of the cam he uses ........
Using the same cam: At TDC, pistons in a high compression "Race engine" would be closer to the valves and they might make contact sooner.

I thought of adding a comment regarding the effects of "high lift" rockers, and how they would make that distance much less. Can't do it because "c_creations" gets insulted when anyone gives him any related knowledge that is not a direct answer to his question. I may have already overstepped my bounds, by comparing "Race" and "stock" pistons.

c_creations wrote: ........ has nothing to do w/ wanting to stick the biggest cam in there. Did i say i was putting the biggest cam in there? no...
Did I say it did? Or that you did? Haven't I answered your question, twice?

c_creations wrote: ........ Don't bother to mention how to figure it out or anything like using clay ........
Since you didn't mention it, we won't either.

c_creations wrote: ........ there must be a standard piston put in the stock motor with the equal precise cuts for the valves in them ........
There must be. I can't help, unless I know WTF you want to know.

c_creations wrote: ........ but dont bother to answer the question just be cockasses thats cool ........
But, don't bother to read the answer, just call us names, that's also Cool, in some cultures.

c_creations wrote: ........ i'd like to resign from this forum. so like, just delete me ........
You don't need our permission, all you have to do is stop visiting.

andrewk · Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 1228 Location: Ames, IA

c_creations wrote: um....... wondering who much lift you can have before you have pieces of valve all over the motor has nothing to do w/ wanting to stick the biggest cam in there. Did i say i was putting the biggest cam in there? no... Don't bother to mention how to figure it out or anything like using clay. and there must be a standard piston put in the stock motor with the equal precise cuts for the valves in them. but dont bother to answer the question just be cockasses thats cool.

um. also. i'd like to resign from this forum. so like, just delete me. k? thanks?

If you know the farkin answer, why the hell do you ask the question? There must be a reason you want to know such information.

I wont bother to mention using clay or anything, because you already know.

Looking for a standard piston? G-O-O-G-L-E

I wont bother to answer any more questions til you get some sleep you grumpy SOB.

Andrew

88 Coupe · Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:13 am Post subject:

andrewk wrote: ........ I wont bother to mention using clay or anything, because you already know ........
He doesn't. He knows clay can be used to check valve to piston clearance, but not when, or how, it's done. I don't think he realizes, he did not ask for that information.

This is for everyone, except "c_creations" (he's gone anyway).

During the mock up of an unknown engine configuration with an exceptionally large cam, a small piece of modeling clay can be placed on the piston, in the area to be verified. The head and valvetrain is installed, the engine turned 720º, and the head removed. If valve to clay contact was made, that area of the clay should be (in most cases) no more than ⅛" thick.

A much easier way to get the same information is, to read the specs on the cam card.

Norm