The Oldsmobile Connection

[GraveReaper0]

Discuss. Why does Gm put little V6s in their heavy ass cars, like the toronado, or the caprice?

[88delta88]

To offer a cheaper model. To seem like it would get better gas mileage. I remember my caprice with the 305, it was just barely enough I remember thinking back then. BUT, it could get the back tire spinning, and when I was 16, that was good enough for me!

[88 Coupe]

GraveReaper0 wrote: Discuss. Why does Gm put little V6s in their heavy ass cars ........
Because that is what their customers will buy.

When one is manufacturing a product, there is no profit unless that product can be sold. Without a profit the business will cease to exist.

To that end, product design is governed by the desires of the potential customers, the company meets those desires, sells the V6, makes a profit, stays in business, and everyone is happy.

If one prefers a V8, there are many of them to choose from.

Norm

[GraveReaper0]

88delta88 wrote: To offer a cheaper model. To seem like it would get better gas mileage. I remember my caprice with the 305, it was just barely enough I remember thinking back then. BUT, it could get the back tire spinning, and when I was 16, that was good enough for me!

The 305 is ok. My friend has a 93 Caprice with a 305, we've got it to go 130mph on 294. I am talking about the Caprices with V6s, I think i was a 4 liter, or a 4.2L?

[Erroneous Restrictionism!]

GraveReaper0 wrote:
I am talking about the Caprices with V6s, I think i was a 4 liter, or a 4.2L?

Wasn't it the 4.3L that was offered as the V6 for the Caprice?



The 4.2L is an I6 offered in the Trailblazer For 2002-and up!
The 4.0L is a Ford and Jeep Engine

[GraveReaper0]

Erroneous Restrictionism! wrote: GraveReaper0 wrote:
I am talking about the Caprices with V6s, I think i was a 4 liter, or a 4.2L?

Wasn't it the 4.3L that was offered as the V6 for the Caprice?



The 4.2L is an I6 offered in the Trailblazer For 2002-and up!
The 4.0L is a Ford and Jeep Engine

yea i believe you got it. I'll bet grandma and grandpa bought the V6 versions. Or gas savy people that don't know squat about cars. Wouldn't the V6 need more maintenance then the V8 since it has to work harder to make the car go?

[88 Coupe]

GraveReaper0 wrote: ........ I'll bet grandma and grandpa bought the V6 versions ........
Would you expect them to buy Corvettes? I would expect them to buy whatever suited their preferences.

Why did you buy a car with a little bitty 307 in it? Did it suit yours?

Why did you not buy something with a 455? Because you do not know "squat"?

GraveReaper0 wrote: ........ Or gas savy people that don't know squat about cars ........
People who buy V6s, do not know "squat" about cars? But you do?

Maybe, if you had any actual knowledge on the subject, you would be discussing it like an adult, instead of "ragging" on anyone who does not share your preferences.

GraveReaper0 wrote: ........ Wouldn't the V6 need more maintenance then the V8 since it has to work harder to make the car go?
Tell us why you think it would.

Norm

[GraveReaper0]

88 Coupe wrote:

GraveReaper0 wrote: ........ Wouldn't the V6 need more maintenance then the V8 since it has to work harder to make the car go?
Tell us why you think it would.

Norm

Well its obvious that an engine with less power needs to work harder to pull the car, thus having more wear and tear.

[Erroneous Restrictionism!]

GraveReaper0 wrote: 88 Coupe wrote:

GraveReaper0 wrote: ........ Wouldn't the V6 need more maintenance then the V8 since it has to work harder to make the car go?
Tell us why you think it would.

Norm

Well its obvious that an engine with less power needs to work harder to pull the car, thus having more wear and tear.

!!Not to make you feel like crap GraveReaper0!!

Regardless of what size an engine is, it will need the same amount maintenance due to its moving parts and their limited dependability.
Changing oil-every 5000Km, air filters-every 15,000Km, PCV's-every 30,000Km, are standard recommendations for all engines, this applies to V6's as well as V8's

An engine with less power can't work harder than one with more power, it's physics 101!

Now...How one drives that engine would determine its reliability

[Erroneous Restrictionism!]

GraveReaper0 wrote:
Well its obvious that an engine with less power needs to work harder to pull the car, thus having more wear and tear.

How much power do you think is needed to move a car?
How much power do you think is needed to keep that car going once started?

Not as much as you think!

[88 Coupe]

Erroneous Restrictionism! wrote: ........ Not to make you feel like crap GraveReaper0 ........
Interesting statement.

[88 Coupe]

GraveReaper0 wrote: Well its obvious that an engine with less power needs to work harder to pull the car, thus having more wear and tear.
You were actually leading us in the right direction.

Tell us why you see it as "working harder", and how it causes more wear and tear.

Norm

[88 Coupe]

Erroneous Restrictionism! wrote: ........ Regardless of what size an engine is, it will need the same amount maintenance due to its moving parts and their limited dependability ........
Due to it's moving parts? And their limited dependability?

Erroneous Restrictionism! wrote: ........ Changing oil-every 5000Km, air filters-every 15,000Km, PCV's-every 30,000Km, are standard recommendations for all engines, this applies to V6's as well as V8's ........
All engines? Under all conditions? Are all replacement parts priced the same for both engines? Are you talking about both pre and post '73 455s?

Does a 231 require the same maintenance as a 455?

Is the total cost of 6 Plugs for the 231, the same as 8 plugs for the 455?

Is the replacement interval the same for both engines?

Erroneous Restrictionism! wrote: ........ An engine with less power can't work harder than one with more power ........
Explain why.

[73Delta88]

88 Coupe wrote:
Tell us why you see it as "working harder", and how it causes more wear and tear.
This is interesting....here's how I see it, Say you have 2 cars that are completely identical except one has a V6 that outputs 100 HP and the other has a larger V8 that outpus 200 HP. For discussion, we'll say that the internal components of these engines were only intended to handle the amount of power each engine currently puts out (100 and 200 HP.)

Say the driver of each car was asked to accelerate from 0 to 60mph in 12 seconds. The V6 car might require 90% throttle to do this, while the V8 car might only require 70% throttle to accelerate to the same speed in the same amount of time.

So, the question becomes: does running an engine at a greater % of its total available output shorten its life? As opposed to running it for the same time and under the same conditions, but at a lower % of it's total available output.

If the internal components of each engine were in fact only intended to handle what each engine currently puts out, then my opinion would be that the smaller engine will incur more wear and tear than the larger engine. However I don’t know if that statement holds water in real life. For example, I don’t know if any of the lower end components in a 4.3 V6 are actually “weaker” than same components in a 5.7 V8. There are probably many other variables that I haven’t considered, but that's my general idea.

Also consider this: just because an engine is bigger does not necessarily mean its components are stronger than a smaller engine. I'm sure there are plenty of V6 or 4 Cyl engines in the world that were designed to put out more power than for example, a 307.

other thoughts?

[andrewk]

Hi 73Delta88, Norm, E.R., all,

I think Eric has done a good job of setting up an apples to apples comparision, or at least as close as one can get.

The way I see it, if it took the V6 90 percent throttle to achieve the same thing the V8 did with 70 percent throttle, the only difference is the amount of fuel and air consumed by each engine. The only reason I can see more wear and tear on the V6 is if it was running beyond its designed load and RPM range. Since we are assuming that the OE engine was designed to pull the car, I don't see how the V6 will have more wear than the V8.

However, you can also say that the V6 is doing more work to accomplish the same result as the V8, so the engine has been worked harder, resulting in more 'wear and tear'.

That's my take... Very interesting indeed.

Andrew