The Oldsmobile Connection

[sean000]

Can anyone suggest some good quality brand performance spark plug wires/electrical components for my 1983 3.8L v6 Cutlass? And maybe a good place to get them.

Thanks in advance, hope everyone had a good Christmas

[Erroneous Restrictionism!]

AC Delco wires, plugs. I find that brand of the two items the best suited for a completely stock engine!

[sean000]

Thanks for your post. I was looking at some performance (accel 8.8mm) that run about 50$. They claim to give better performance due decreased electrical resistance. Has anyone had any experience with performance wires? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks,

[Erroneous Restrictionism!]

Actually I have tried those "Accel 8.8's". They made my Cutlass run a little hotter then I liked(Detonation). IMHO they weren't worth the doe I spend on them. So I returned to stock wires.
I have been thinking of Taylor's wires, I have heard/seen good results with them while using a stock ignition! But researching this would be the "Smart" way!

As for plugs the Delcos are great! Platinum plugs dont work well while running on 87-89 octane gasoline, especially when used with a stock ignition, those are designed for higher octane, for a cleaner burn. I cant say anything about Copper plugs cause I never used them.

You need a stronger ignition system to make this benificial. MSD makes a great all around ignition system that stands up to their reputation!

[88 Coupe]

sean000 wrote: ........ I was looking at some performance (accel 8.8mm) that run about 50$ ........
Waste of your time and money.

sean000 wrote: ........ They claim to give better performance due decreased electrical resistance .........
That's what they would like you to believe. Slim chance any manufacture would actually publish that claim.

Quote: ........ Has anyone had any experience with performance wires? ........
Yes.

They are no better that OEM or OEM Replacements.

If you choose to use aftermarket products to "dress up" your engine bay, or are working on a Racing Engine, that would be a different subject.

Norm

[88 Coupe]

Erroneous Restrictionism! wrote: ........ They made my Cutlass run a little hotter then I liked(Detonation) ........
How do plug wires make an engine run hotter?

Erroneous Restrictionism! wrote: ........ I have been thinking of Taylor's wires ........
In this case, they are no better than OEM.

Erroneous Restrictionism! wrote: ........ I have heard/seen good results with them while using a stock ignition! ........
What have you heard/seen? Any numbers? Documentation? In this case, what difference does a stock ignition make?

Erroneous Restrictionism! wrote: ........ As for plugs the Delcos are great! ........
Yes, ACs are what the engine was designed to use.

Erroneous Restrictionism! wrote: ........ Platinum plugs dont work well while running on 87-89 octane gasoline especially when used with a stock ignition ........
What does the fuel grade and/or ignition have to do with the wrong choice of plugs for the application?

Erroneous Restrictionism! wrote: ........ those are designed for higher octane, for a cleaner burn ........
Higher octane? Cleaner burn?

Erroneous Restrictionism! wrote: ........ I cant say anything about Copper plugs cause I never used them ........
Copper plugs?

Erroneous Restrictionism! wrote: ........ You need a stronger ignition system to make this benificial .........
His stock ignition is more than up to anything his engine will ever require. To make what beneficial?

Erroneous Restrictionism! wrote: ........ MSD makes a great all around ignition system that stands up to their reputation!
Which MSD ignition system do you suggest? How much power increase might he expect from using it?

[andrewk]

88 Coupe wrote: sean000 wrote: ........ I was looking at some performance (accel 8.8mm) that run about 50$ ........
Waste of your time and money.

sean000 wrote: ........ They claim to give better performance due decreased electrical resistance .........
That's what they would like you to believe. Slim chance any manufacture would actually publish that claim.

Quote: ........ Has anyone had any experience with performance wires? ........
Yes.

They are no better that OEM or OEM Replacements.

If you choose to use aftermarket products to "dress up" your engine bay, or are working on a Racing Engine, that would be a different subject.

Norm

Related question...

When I had my Olds, I spent the money for some spiral core wires from Accel. Were these a waste of my money? Supposedly, and this is what I read from the manufacturer, they 'utilized the HEI's power' b/c of the sprial core. Not sure if it was fact or legend, but I did notice an ass dyno difference. Could have been from a bad previous wire, or not.

Now to the point- In your experience, do 'performance' wires offer any advantage or disadvantage? Or is it all just a marketing ploy? Is there some point where one needs to consider a better wire?

Thanks,

Andrew

[88 Coupe]

Welcome back, and thanks for your input.

This may be of interest.

The link in the first post, was to an exchange that took place on ROP. It was as funny as it was informative. Unfortunately, it was lost in one of the crashes.

andrewk wrote: ........ Were these a waste of my money? ........
For anything over the cost of OEM replacements? Yes.

Quote: ........ this is what I read from the manufacturer, they 'utilized the HEI's power' b/c of the spiral core ........
An accurate quote, in context, would be helpful. A link to that page would be an ideal starting point.

Did they actually claim a power increase? Did they provide any documentation? Dyno numbers, timeslips, etc?

Assuming your statement was accurate. The OEM ignition can easily supply twice as much voltage as the plug will ever use. What would be the point of increasing that capability?

More importantly, did you actually read that, or were you reading something that was not there?

Quote: ........ I did notice an ass dyno difference ........
Any numbers?

More than once, the improvements indicated by my ass dyno have been proven to be non existent, if not the opposite, by the clocks at my local strips.

Quote: ........ Could have been from a bad previous wire, or not ........
If it was, wouldn't an OEM replacement have caused the same improvement?

Omission of the part about a faulty wire, during a review, is all that's needed to keep the hoax alive. Good example of why it has survived for thirty, or so, years.

Quote: ........ In your experience, do 'performance' wires offer any advantage or disadvantage? ........
Advantage = they look impressive.
Disadvantage = they cost more than OEM wires.

Quote: ........ Or is it all just a marketing ploy? ........
I think they are using the existing misinformation to their own advantage.

Marketing/advertising, and its manipulation of consumers, would be another topic. One where I would have many questions, and few answers.

Quote: ........ Is there some point where one needs to consider a better wire?
I do not doubt there is, but I have not reached it, yet. If/when I do reach that point, I will likely return to using the same OEM wire that was used prior to 1961.

Re: that ROP thread?

Started with a question similar to this thread opener.
An MSD was suggested by an "expert".
Some "smart azz" asked "why an MSD?". Sort of like I did, above?
Paraphrasing the answer from the "expert", " it is good for 10 to 30 Horsepower".
"Smart azz" explained, in detail, why that was not possible.
"Smart azz" was then told (amid numerous flames) by the "expert" to go to the MSD site and find the 10 to 30 HP figure for himself.

MSD had never claimed any power increases. If they had, I would not have asked the question, there or here.

Regards, Norm

[andrewk]

I will search for that quote when I am not fighting a dial up connection. Soooo slow!

Anyway...

I am sure the OEM wires are sufficent, as they work. But what I don't understand so much, is that I would think that a wire that isnt just that paper and carbon core, but some sort of metal would have to have less resistance, and therefore better performance than that stock wire.

But the fact remains that the stock ignition system doesnt require anything more to function properly.

Of Course, I'm sure different makes used different wire construction, or even different construction within the same brand.

Perhaps an added advantage is that the performance wire, being made of real wire, and not the paper carbon core, would last longer than its OEM counterpart?

I assume that the use of this particular OEM core is to reduce EMI, for uninterupted radio operation, but is there any other reason they used such wires?

[88 Coupe]

andrewk wrote: ........ I would think that a wire that isn't just that paper and carbon core, but some sort of metal would have to have less resistance, and therefore better performance than that stock wire ........
If the "Hot Dog" wire is able to deliver 8,000,000,000 Volts to the plug.

And the OEM wire is "only" able to deliver 40,000 V to the same plug.

And the OEM Coil is capable of 30,000 V, but only delivers what the plug requires.

And 2,000 V is all the plug requires to get the spark across the gap

How could the "Hot Dog" wire be better than the OEM wire, at handling the same 2,000 Volts?


Quote: ........ Perhaps an added advantage is that the performance wire, being made of real wire, and not the paper carbon core, would last longer than its OEM counterpart? ........
In theory, yes. But if it were true, I would think the ad agencies would be making sure it was common knowledge.

Quote: ........ I assume that the use of this particular OEM core is to reduce EMI, for uninterrupted radio operation ........
Exactly. Prior to '61, as part of any radio installation, capacitors were placed on the ignition coil, generator, and regulator to eliminate RFI. Starting in '61, carbon core ignition cable replaced the capacitors.

Quote: ........ but is there any other reason they used such wires?
None.

Regards, Norm

[andrewk]

88coupe wrote: ..........How could the "Hot Dog" wire be better than the OEM wire, at handling the same 2,000 Volts?

Great way of explaining it. Don't know why I couldn't see past my own statement, but such is life.

Thanks,

Andrew

[88 Coupe]

andrewk wrote: ........ Thanks
No, thank you for continuing to ask questions.

Since MSD was mentioned above, I wonder how many are aware of the excessive electrode wear that is caused by the multiple spark discharges.

Regards Norm