The Oldsmobile Connection

88 Coupe · Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:22 am Post subject: Re: 2 inch drop

Erroneous Restrictionism! wrote: ........ If you have used them then that question was rhetorical! ........
OK. You have chosen not to answer. Your choice cannot harm your credibility, because you have none.

Erroneous Restrictionism! wrote: ........ What would alcohol have to do with my car sitting still?..as in not moving! ........
I will rephrase: My guess is, that the author had imbibed a bit more alcohol than he should have. It caused him to compose his message in French, but using English words.

Do you have a better explanation for that unintelligible post?

Erroneous Restrictionism! wrote: ........ Read it again, read what's there, not what you want to read!
Write it in English.

Erroneous Restrictionism! · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 266

88 Coupe wrote: Erroneous Restrictionism! wrote: ........ If you have used them then that question was rhetorical! ........
OK. You have chosen not to answer. Your choice cannot harm your credibility, because you have none.

Good for me, that's your opinion!
88 Coupe wrote:
Erroneous Restrictionism! wrote: ........ What would alcohol have to do with my car sitting still?..as in not moving! ........
I will rephrase: My guess is, that the author had imbibed a bit more alcohol than he should have. It caused him to compose his message in French, but using English words.

Do you have a better explanation for that unintelligible post?

Read it again, start from the begining and this time use your imagination!

88 Coupe wrote:
Erroneous Restrictionism! wrote: ........ Read it again, read what's there, not what you want to read!
Write it in English.

Get your head out of the box!

88 Coupe · Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:32 am Post subject: Re: 2 inch drop

Erroneous Restrictionism! wrote: ........ Read it again, start from the begining and this time use your imagination ........
Imagination? As in, read what is not there? I will try again.

Erroneous Restrictionism! wrote: ........ I dont drive my car hard enough to make them brake, it's irresponsible to do otherwise!
If one were to "Brake" while in front of this group of people I would be wondering what my car was doing while sitting still!
OK, I tried. Write it in English.

andrewk · Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 1246 Location: Ames, IA

88 Coupe wrote:
Quote: ........ If the springs were cut it would soften the rate ........
Would it?
Quote: ........ If the spring was cut on the big end of the progression, it wouldn't soften the spring, correct?
It wouldn't?

The answer to those questions is "I don't know". I haven't dealt with enough suspension modification to know.

88 Coupe · Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:14 pm Post subject: Re: 2 inch drop

andrewk wrote: ........ I haven't dealt with enough suspension modification to know.
Do you need to know about suspensions, or mods to them, in order to discuss coil springs?

Norm

andrewk · Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 1246 Location: Ames, IA

88 Coupe wrote: andrewk wrote: ........ I haven't dealt with enough suspension modification to know.
Do you need to know about suspensions, or mods to them, in order to discuss coil springs?

Norm

Not necessarily, but I am comfortable with my knowledge about them enough to discuss them.

I know that a progressive rate spring has several different 'rates' given its position of operation, and that a regular coil does not have this feature, however, I do not know the consequense, if any, of cutting them, or the way a person would go about cutting them correctly.

I do know that they are springs, and if too much heat is applied, the steel will lose its temper, and the spring will become very soft.

Andrew

HOLMBERG · Joined: 30 Dec 2006 Posts: 3 Location: N.H

Wow, from reading what all of you put up I cant decide how I want to lower my ride, therefore I will leave it the way it is. Thanx for the advice and information. Happy New Year.

88 Coupe · Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:53 pm Post subject:

HOLMBERG wrote: ........ I cant decide how I want to lower my ride ........
Sorry about the distraction.

2 inches can be done easily by cutting your coils. More importantly, that small change would not show any negative effect on your ride quality, under normal driving conditions.

Since they must be removed, in order to be cut, there is some labor involved. Not much cash outlay if you can do it yourself. More if you must pay for the labor.

If you need anything more specific to your own needs, you can post in the following thread. I don't think there is any difference between your queries.

http://www.oldsconnection.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2442

Regards, Norm

88 Coupe · Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:57 pm Post subject: Re: 2 inch drop

OK.

Three springs have the same coil diameters, wire diameters, and height, but different numbers of coils.

A has X, B has X+1, and C has X-1.

Picture all three, side by side by side. Do you see anything that might cause a difference in the spring rate (stiffness) of each spring?

If this exercise doesn't work, I'll post the explanation.

Norm

andrewk · Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 1246 Location: Ames, IA

OK, here goes-

The spring rates will differ. B will be stiffer, and C will be softer. More coils equals a stiffer spring rate because there are more coils to support the load, and less means there are less coils to support the load, so it will have a softer spring rate.

Spring A is somewhere inbetween.

Correct?

And cutting any one of these coils would result in less spring to support the load, which would create a softer spring rate, correct?

And, going back to my previous statment, wouldn't cutting the springs diminish the OEM ride quality, or is the effect less than I think it is? I am picturing those kids with the honda civics that ride like dog crap because they cut their springs way down...

I am learning alot in this thread... Thanks.

Andrew

88 Coupe · Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:08 am Post subject: Re: 2 inch drop

88 Coupe wrote: ........ Do you see anything that might cause a difference in the spring rate (stiffness) of each spring? ........
The number of coils was a given. If the answer were that simple, we would not be "looking" at the "picture" I presented.

I will rephrase the question:

Other than the number of coils, do you see anything that might cause a difference in the spring rate (stiffness) of each spring?

andrewk wrote: ........ I am picturing those kids with the Honda civics that ride like dog crap because they cut their springs way down ........
Does it have anything to do with spring rates, or is it because they have eliminated all suspension travel?

andrewk wrote: ........ I am learning a lot in this thread...
That is why I am here. Hopefully, you are not the only one.

Then again, maybe I am only here because I am arrogant.

Regards, Norm

andrewk · Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 1246 Location: Ames, IA

Quote: Other than the number of coils, do you see anything that might cause a difference in the spring rate (stiffness) of each spring?

No. Should I? Other than the coils, there is more material there to support the load, but that too is nearly a given.

Quote: Does it have anything to do with spring rates, or is it because they have eliminated all suspension travel?

I'm sure travel has everything to do with it. The spring is too short, which bottoms out the shocks, or better said, lets the shocks bottom out eaisly.

Erroneous Restrictionism! · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 266

andrewk wrote: Quote: Other than the number of coils, do you see anything that might cause a difference in the spring rate (stiffness) of each spring?

No. Should I? Other than the coils, there is more material there to support the load, but that too is nearly a given.

Quote: Does it have anything to do with spring rates, or is it because they have eliminated all suspension travel?

I'm sure travel has everything to do with it. The spring is too short, which bottoms out the shocks, or better said, lets the shocks bottom out eaisly.

Lets just say a shock has 3 inches of travel in conjunction with the spring, cause they work together..if you cut one coil off the spring, that shock now has only two inches of travel before "bottoming out"...

Stiffer?...as in up and down stiffness or body roll stiffness?...Spring C would create a lateral stiffness due to less coils, but up and down would have less resistance. Spring B would have a more efficient travel up and down due to more coils loading up, making it stiffer faster compared to spring C. Spring A would have both of those qualities that B and C have all around. So if C has 50% more lateral stability than B, A would have 25% more stability over B in that area, so on and so forth!

Does this make sense?

Would spring A be the best option?

88 Coupe · Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:35 am Post subject: Re: 2 inch drop

andrewk wrote: ........ there is more material there to support the load, but that too is nearly a given ........
Nearly? No it wasn't. More or less wire needed for the extra (or missing) coil is what you were looking for.

It seems I used a poor example, as the wire length has no meaning to you. Everything else being equal, a longer wire will be more flexible. If one removes a short length of that wire, the remainder will be stiffer.

In my experience, the extra stiffness compensates for the reduced suspension travel.

andrewk wrote: ........ travel has everything to do with it ........
If there is no suspension travel, springs have become a non issue.

The OP was looking for 2 inches. If he wanted more than three, removing coils would be out of the question.

Norm

88 Coupe · Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:36 am Post subject: Re: 2 inch drop

Erroneous Restrictionism! wrote: ........ Does this make sense? ........
No.