The Oldsmobile Connection

[andrewk]

Quote: Nearly? No it wasn't. More or less wire needed for the extra (or missing) coil is what you were looking for.

OK. I guess in my mind it wasnt the amount of wire used, but the number of coils created that mattered. So I think I am at least in the same paragraph as you...:lol:

I did not realize longer equaled more flexion. (Sort of sounds like a personal problem...:lol:) But it makes sense.

Andrew

[88 Coupe]

andrewk wrote: ........ OK. I guess in my mind it wasn't the amount of wire used, but the number of coils created that mattered ........
I realized that, while I was composing my last. In this case, I had to give you the answer, because I couldn't figure out how to guide you to it.

I hate it, when that happens.

It doesn't always occur to us, to look at an issue from the opposite direction.

Norm

[Erroneous Restrictionism!]

88 Coupe wrote: Erroneous Restrictionism! wrote: ........ Does this make sense? ........
No.

Why not?...Could you explain why it makes no sense to you?

[88 Coupe]

Erroneous Restrictionism! wrote: ........ Lets just say a shock has 3 inches of travel in conjunction with the spring, cause they work together..if you cut one coil off the spring, that shock now has only two inches of travel before "bottoming out" ........
Because shocks are not the limiting factor in suspension travel, you are only partially correct.

Since you were only repeating what andrewk posted previously, and shocks are not relevant to the discussion, this part can be ignored.

Erroneous Restrictionism! wrote: ........ Could you explain why it makes no sense to you?
Body roll stiffness?

Lateral stiffness?

C has 50% more lateral stability than B?

In order for me to know why it makes no sense, I would have to understand what you were trying to say, and how it related to the topic.

88 Coupe wrote: ........ Everything else being equal, a longer wire will be more flexible. If one removes a short length of that wire, the remainder will be stiffer ........
This is where we are now.

[88delta88]

88 Coupe wrote: ........ Everything else being equal, a longer wire will be more flexible. If one removes a short length of that wire, the remainder will be stiffer ........
Lets take the long peice of wire and roll it into a spring. We measure how high the spring is, diameter, and how many coils it takes to roll the spring.

Lets now take the shorter peice and roll it into a spring also, the same height and diameter as the first. In order to make the spring the same height and diameter, there are fewer coils, but the springs will be the same size.

This has a direct effect on how easy the newly created spring compresses.

[88delta88]

andrewk wrote: I do know that they are springs, and if too much heat is applied, the steel will lose its temper, and the spring will become very soft.
Heat applied to metal makes it HARDER. This is how they harden many metals.

I have heard of the spring temper issue also, and for that reason, I cut my springs on a band saw, with cutting oil. I was through the metal in less than 20 seconds. Nice clean cut.

I'd like to add here that I've been driving my olds, with the cut springs in it since 2001, and have had NO problems with my suspension at all. (Besides having to replace struts twice, but it was my fault for buying cheap crap)

The cars ride was noticeably stiffer, but still very comfortable, and absolutely no "bucking" like you see some of those lowered rockets a'la rice. Cornered better, felt so much nicer being closer to the road. Parking lots havent been an issue so far, and since the monroe sensatracs, I cant tell there was any modification at all.

Holmberg, I think you've been scared off with spring rate discussion. I've cut my springs myself, and have a slightly lowered car that rides well. Just FYI.

[andrewk]

88delta88 wrote: andrewk wrote: I do know that they are springs, and if too much heat is applied, the steel will lose its temper, and the spring will become very soft.
Heat applied to metal makes it HARDER. This is how they harden many metals.

I have heard of the spring temper issue also, and for that reason, I cut my springs on a band saw, with cutting oil. I was through the metal in less than 20 seconds. Nice clean cut.

Metal is tempered through heating and then cooling, many times. If you heat the metal too much, it will lose its temper, espically if it is in a shape such as a spring.

For instance, if you sharpen a knife with a grinder, and let the thing get red hot, you will find that the edge doesnt last very long, and that future sharpenings yield the same result.

[88delta88]

andrewk wrote: Metal is tempered through heating and then cooling, many times. If you heat the metal too much, it will lose its temper, espically if it is in a shape such as a spring.

For instance, if you sharpen a knife with a grinder, and let the thing get red hot, you will find that the edge doesnt last very long, and that future sharpenings yield the same result.
Thanks, might have to read up more about it... Cool stuff.

[88 Coupe]

88delta88 wrote: ........ Heat applied to metal makes it HARDER. This is how they harden many metals .........
The heat applied, has nothing to do with how hard or soft the material becomes. The way it is cooled afterward, has everything to do with it.

Cooling it naturally in the air, will make it soft. Quenching it in water, or oil, will make it harder.

88delta88 wrote: ........ I cut my springs on a band saw, with cutting oil. I was through the metal in less than 20 seconds ........
Diamond blade?

Norm

[88delta88]

88coupe,

Dont think the shop would spend the money on a diamond blade, but I do remember picking up 4 blades, and it was over $1000. It is a large self propelled metal band-saw. Not sure what the tooth spec on that blade was either, but we cut 12" bumper-pole with it most of the time. Worked amazing on my springs too...

[88 Coupe]

I've always used oxy-acetylene. Changed to one of these for the last two sets.


http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=44829

Not a lot of difference in the end results.

Norm