The Oldsmobile Connection

88 Coupe · Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:29 am Post subject: Re: cold Air Intake

91buickman wrote: Quote: Never said I did. Perfect example of "stonewalling".
........ you said already that youre setup with the drier duct is better than my PVC........Fact ........
Two lies. Second was the word ........Fact.

91buickman wrote: ........what do you drive ........
Nothing to do with the topic.

Norm

91parkave · Joined: 29 May 2007 Posts: 516

http://www.oldsconnection.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2782&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

88 Coupe · Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:50 pm Post subject: Re: cold Air Intake

91buickman wrote: http://www.oldsconnection.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2782&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15
Post the quote.

Norm

91parkave · Joined: 29 May 2007 Posts: 516

CLown with as many sections and ridges drier duct has, how does that not create turbulence?

88 Coupe · Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:30 pm Post subject: Re: cold Air Intake

91buickman wrote: http://www.oldsconnection.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2782&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15
Funny you should pick that particular page.

91buickman wrote: ........ but the aluminum pipe heat soaks really really bad ........

88 Coupe wrote: ........ Explain how that affects the air that's moving thru it .........
well..if you dont have the brain capacity to know that aluminum does heat soak ........
Simple question. Simple answer, if one has a clue.

You answer told us who, and what, you are.

Norm

91parkave · Joined: 29 May 2007 Posts: 516

yea keep reading through and then i finish the rest of the reply.....
i still havent seen anything yet that you produced in this thread to be at all helpful.

88 Coupe · Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: cold Air Intake

91buickman wrote: ........ how does that not create turbulence?
Funny you should bring that up.

91buickman wrote: ........ actually theres been many studies on how turbulent flexible tubing is ........
What were the conclusions?

Norm

88 Coupe · Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:55 pm Post subject: Re: cold Air Intake

91buickman wrote: yea keep reading through and then i finish the rest of the reply ........
You lied again. There is nothing to quote.

Norm

91parkave · Joined: 29 May 2007 Posts: 516

For those who know aerodynamics---------a smooth tube has no resistance to air going through it-we can all agree on that

a tube with ridges, and other obstructions will cause turbulence or in other words, causing friction and reistance to airflow.

Then lets throw in a electronic sensor that determines the air flow. or mass air flow sensor

Laminar air flow- or "smooth" airflow flows more efficently because the incoming air charge has little to no turbulence will flow through the honeycomb screen (designed from the factory to straighten air flow in front of the MAF for more accurate airflow readings) (fact) faster then a turbulent air flow will. My whole case in point is improving air flow for more power and better engine breathing and effiency. Now matter what level of performance you are at it is key to improve engine breathing for optimal performance stock or highly modified.

andrewk · Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 1234 Location: Ames, IA

91parkave wrote:
In your above post you mentioned what percentage of people who have nothing or something to gain from CAI's.

I was talking about it in reference to the topic we have been discussing in this thread. Its what people do on message boards. If it were a different subject, or a different context, a new thread would have been made by me. If you need to be reminded of things that have been dicussed, all the pages are there.

Quote: And advanced enough equipment? come on andrew fuel injected/Maf equppied cars are not simple by any means.

Who said they were? (They are not overly complicated either) However, complex does not mean a performance level in proportion to the level of complexity. I already discussed the definition of "advanced" that I was using. Advanced, in the terms I have been speaking, is using components that are a step above OE stuff, devices that are capable of being more precise than the OE. Nothing you have on your car is "advanced" according to your signature, except the "P&P" work.

Quote: So as for the advanced statment well yea all of us except Norm have advanced equipment from the factory.

Not true. Advanced would be something that is more precise than the "factory" produces.

Quote: So let me re-phrase my idea then. Since we all run "advanced" equpiment, it is beneficial to make everything run efficently as possible.

Only if the ends justify the means. For example, one would not invest thousands in a set of heads, and not do anything with the rest of the engine.

Quote: By way of certain modifactions. We all know that drier duct has a crap load of "ridges" when air enters that turbulence will follow when it hits the MAF "screen" it has to be straightened out to enter the TB.

Lets see the data. Until then, you are shooting out in the dark from your azz. Corrupt data processing leads to corrupt results. GIGO.

Quote: how efficent is that???

Efficient enough for the components used. You only have to make the intake efficient enough for these components to work properly.

Quote: now lets think my current setup has one long radius bend of PVC, The air flows smoothly enough to get Laminar before it reaches the MAF, since the air is already "straight" it passes through the screen with little to no resistance.

Good for you. If/when you get to the point that it will make a difference for your engine, you will be a step ahead of the game.

andrewk · Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 1234 Location: Ames, IA

91parkave wrote: For those who know aerodynamics---------a smooth tube has no resistance to air going through it-we can all agree on that

If your aerodynamic knowledge is as in depth as your thermodynamic knowledge, you have no business lumping yourself in the group that "knows".
Quote:
a tube with ridges, and other obstructions will cause turbulence or in other words, causing friction and reistance to airflow.

Without quantitative data, that is a pointless statement, in regard to the flex-duct you are referring to.

Quote:
Laminar air flow- or "smooth" airflow flows more efficently because the incoming air charge has little to no turbulence will flow through the honeycomb screen (designed from the factory to straighten air flow in front of the MAF for more accurate airflow readings) (fact) faster then a turbulent air flow will.

How many times must we all repeat ourselves? At some point, the efficiency of the intake will exceed the efficiency of the engine, and any further modifications to the intake are moot. The arguement has been, that there is an improvement in using a smooth-walled pipe in place of flex-duct in a nearly stock application.

Quote: My whole case in point is improving air flow for more power and better engine breathing and effiency.

And again, there comes a point where more efficient air flow is not going to improve any part of the performance or operation of the engine, because the 'bottle neck' is now somewhere else.

Quote: Now matter what level of performance you are at it is key to improve engine breathing for optimal performance stock or highly modified.

All you can do is improve it to the full potential of the components you are using.

91parkave · Joined: 29 May 2007 Posts: 516

andrewk wrote:
If your aerodynamic knowledge is as in depth as your thermodynamic knowledge, you have no business lumping yourself in the group that "knows".

what did that post have to do with thermodynamics....none. so dont even go there.

andrewk wrote:

Without quantitative data, that is a pointless statement, in regard to the flex-duct you are referring to.

Not if you know aerodynamics

andrewk wrote:

How many times must we all repeat ourselves? At some point, the efficiency of the intake will exceed the efficiency of the engine, and any further modifications to the intake are moot. The arguement has been, that there is an improvement in using a smooth-walled pipe in place of flex-duct in a nearly stock application.

a 3'intake or cold air intake alone will not exceed the efficiency of the 3800 series engines by itself, or let me ask this do you "factual" data?

andrewk wrote:

And again, there comes a point where more efficient air flow is not going to improve any part of the performance or operation of the engine, because the 'bottle neck' is now somewhere else.

oh really so youre saying in effect is that cold air intakes dont do anything power wise? :^o

andrewk wrote:

All you can do is improve it to the full potential of the components you are using.

which would mean a increase in performance then right. Oh but in the post above you state making the air flow mre efficent dosent do anything to improve performance....sooo which one is it?

andrewk · Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 1234 Location: Ames, IA

Oh my god... thats code you just used....:shock:

91parkave wrote:
what did that post have to do with thermodynamics....none. so dont even go there.

I'm certain there is a direct correlation between your previous "show" of knowledge in thermodynamics and now, with a more complicated science.

Quote: Not if you know aerodynamics

We have no data to tell us how much less flex duct flows. Sure a pipe that has a smaller cross-sectional area, or is ribbed will flow less than one that is larger, or smoother. We went over this pages ago. What's your point?

Quote: a 3'intake or cold air intake alone will not exceed the efficiency of the 3800 series engines by itself, or let me ask this do you "factual" data?

I don't think I "factual" anything. I don't even know what the hell that is supposed to mean.

Quote:
oh really so youre saying in effect is that cold air intakes dont do anything power wise?

Read whats there, not what isn't. There are benefits to be gained, but there is a limit to said benefits when using a near stock setup.
Quote:
which would mean a increase in performance then right. Oh but in the post above you state making the air flow mre efficent dosent do anything to improve performance....sooo which one is it?

Don't be obtuse. I clearly said there are benefits to it.

91parkave · Joined: 29 May 2007 Posts: 516

Lol you know what...is there anything else to discuss that has a positive contribution to this thread? i think we went over EVERYTHING. and will really help people to decide what they want to do. Andrew IMO since youre a moderator i think you should lock this thread because there really nothing else but suttle insults to throw around.

88 Coupe · Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:36 pm Post subject: Re: cold Air Intake

91parkave wrote: ........ is there anything else to discuss that has a positive contribution to this thread? ........
Yes there is.

We can begin with the following:

http://www.oldsconnection.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=21153#21153

First question, from my first post, in this thread.

88 Coupe wrote: 91parkave wrote: ........ but the aluminum pipe heat soaks really really bad ........
Explain how that affects the air that's moving thru it ........
You made the statement. You have not explained it.

Norm