The Oldsmobile Connection

hYPeRwhiTeCuttY · Joined: 13 Jun 2003 Posts: 1 Location: Western New York

Hey Guys, are cold air intakes worth the price and effort? I'm thinking about getting one but I'm not sure...what are your opinions? :roll:

Primer Death · Joined: 08 Jun 2003 Posts: 102 Location: Maine

well you can make them cheaper than you can buy them, get a cone airfilter and take out that annoying box!

88delta88 · Joined: 09 Jun 2003 Posts: 2407 Location: Canada

Reducing air flow restriction is more important than the temperature of the air. The shorter and less restrictive the intake is, the easier the engine can breathe. And thats the real idea behind all those cold air intakes. Just reducing the temperature of the air at the intake wont give you a noticable difference in performance...

Making it breathe easier will increase horses slightly, increase your gas milage and it'll sound a bit different when you hammer the throttle too...

Its a tough call, I wouldnt do it myself unless my stock air box really bothered me...

On my car in particular, there was a stupid air snout that came off the air box. This snout reduced the air box intake from about 3.5" opening to 2.5" at the end of the snout. I took this "restricter" off the air box, and it made a small, but noticable difference.

Just some thoughts...
Aaron

Brando · Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 3060 Location: Michigan, USA

From what I have heard from other members of this board....I think it is worth it. Since I have heard it is not hard to do and all you really need to pay for is a cone filter which usually includes a clamp to hook it up to the pipe. So is it worth it you ask...that all depends on if you wanna get a little more horsepower, it's not gonna make a major improvement, but I am sure you'll notice a little difference in acceleration and the sound of the engine. BTW, what kind of car do you have anywayz and what engine? Spinmaster30 has done this himself, as well as I think 89Delta88, so maybe they have a word or two to put into this...

88Delta88: This snout you are talking about...I think I have this too...at the end of the air box...the pipe itself is labeled a "snorkel" :lol:

TOC Admin
Brando

Primer Death · Joined: 08 Jun 2003 Posts: 102 Location: Maine

He owns a Cutlass.

88Delta88,
I removed that snorkel too... it picks up dirty air, from the fenders

speedyguy · Joined: 14 Jun 2003 Posts: 18 Location: California

Its up to you.. Yes the change is minor on a stock non-sc 3.8l you can gain 8-10hp. Cold air is a very big deal in warmer areas and cooler and denser air retains more oxygen. Same effect that water injection has in alot of the super cars. The same deal is true with NOS. MORE oxygen.. is very important.

This doesn’t mean you have to buy an expensive intake Domestic Performance is currently working on cheaper options with equal effects. I will send some examples to the owner of the board to try out.

Ty

:cool:

speedyguy · Joined: 14 Jun 2003 Posts: 18 Location: California

You will find the average loss of hp with warmer air is 1% for every 10 degrees the inlet temperature is raised.

Ty

strokercutlass · Joined: 09 Jun 2003 Posts: 379 Location: Wis

88 delta...
"Reducing air flow restriction is more important than the temperature of the air." NOT entirely true. while it IS true that air flow restriction is important, or lack thereof, it is negated if the temperature of the air coming in is too high to saturate and mix well with the fuel charge...cold air tends to be more dense, and more combustable than warm air, which, when saturated with fuel..will attempt to rise, rather than settle into the intake...

"The shorter and less restrictive the intake is, the easier the engine can breathe. And thats the real idea behind all those cold air intakes. Just reducing the temperature of the air at the intake wont give you a noticable difference in performance... " FALSE the idea behind cold air intakes is to cool the incoming air charge before it reaches the carburetor or throttle body....thats why the majority of the cold air intakes pull air from either the front, hood area, or under the bumper area of the vehicle, where the air temperature is cooler than inside the engine compartment. reducing the temperature of the air at the intake WILL produce a noticeable difference, at least on a time slip..thats why you see cars tend to run faster either earlier in the day, or later in the evening..when the temperature has dropped...and also the reason why, when carbureted engines were the norm..you'd see people ice down the intake manifolds or make cool cans for the fuel lines, because cold air makes more power than warm air does...in fact, when you talk about shorter and less restrictive, in fact, the majority of cold air intake systems are LONGER, to be able to reach up front and take advantage of the cooler air coming in... because COOL AIR MAKES POWER..yes restriction DOES play a part, but..to say that the temperature of the air doesnt make a difference in the performance of the engine isnt true at all....not trying to bash you at all..just trying to make you aware that the statements you made arent entirely true....say for example...you have 3 identical 88 deltas with 3.8's.....one has the stock airbox setup, the second has a K&N type cone filter off the mass air flow sensor, the third has a similar setup to car #2, but runs an intake pipe over to the drivers side, under the radiator support...car # 1 will obviously be the slowest, due to the restrictive nature of the stock airbox...car # 2 will have better performance than car #1, due to increased airflow into the MAF sensor and throttle body..however, the filter also sits right abover the exhaust crossover pipe, pulling in hot air from the engine compartment...although car # 3 will have a longer run to move air into the MAF..it will also pull cooler air, as well as forcing more air into the engine, due to the length of piping and the ram air effect, which will make the car faster yet.. smooth transitioning IS important, but SOME restriction or turbulence is needed...if you had an engine with perfectly glass smooth runners, ports, intakes, and etc..there would be no turbulence created to properly atomize the fuel mixture, therefore it wouldnt burn well....just a few other points to consider....

88delta88 · Joined: 09 Jun 2003 Posts: 2407 Location: Canada

I appologise for just spouting off mis-information, I am very glad someone corrected me.

I learn something new everyday! I did not realise temperature was a factor, I've always understood that the freer the flow was the name of the game. I shall take that information into account, and maybe even change the way my air box is set up. I also was under the impression that a different air intake system wouldnt make the difference that you guys are talking about. Maybe I should really look into this further...

What is the best intake tube size to use for the 3.8? And what can be done about that dinky mass airflow sensor, if anything?

88delta88 · Joined: 09 Jun 2003 Posts: 2407 Location: Canada

Strokercutlass,

On the glass smooth intake issue you brought up... If there is no turbulence to mix fuel with air, it doesnt atomize correctly.... A while back on TV, they advertised a "cyclone" or something for your intake. This basically looked like a fan prop, although it was stationary. It was supposed to put a "spin" on the incoming air, which would mix better. Good idea, but not for the 50 or so dollars they wanted. So, would something like that be of benefit, if I designed a similar one myself? Or does a properly designed intake eliminate the need for such a device?

strokercutlass · Joined: 09 Jun 2003 Posts: 379 Location: Wis

88delta,
to answer a couple questions...you cant bypass the MAF sensor...it senses air temp, and a few other things..theres been mixed test results on removing the screen...1/2 of the hotrodding community says remove it, cause it will remove restriction..the other 1/2 says leave it, cause it helps create turbulence into the intake, as well as protect the sensor wire from damage.......from what i've read into it myself, and experience in general, i'd say leave the screen...as far as the intake pipe size...i guess i'd go with the same size as the MAF sensor, which i THINK is around 3", right off the top of my head...the one downside of the cold air inducetion, is that it will tend to pull up more bugs, road debris, etc..so you'll have to probably check or clean the filter more often....as far as the cyclone idea...lol....its been pushed on EBay and other places, and marketed under numerous names...theres several theorys to this..and basically most of em are a ripoff, and nothin more than a ploy to separate ya from your hard earned cash....

speedyguy · Joined: 14 Jun 2003 Posts: 18 Location: California

That’s right watch your money spin away.

I have been on several boards discussing the ups and downs of the intake the screen and all the intake options. lol it gets silly.

Most important is to provide enough cool air. If you seal an area off even just a large shield that is insulated along with the pipe being insulated you will feel gains. To save money you can use specialty flexible piping and you are set.

Keep your Maf screen on. The difference with it off is next to non and worth keeping it on. The screen also straitens the air out for the Maf. turbulent air is not what we want before the maf.

Now that you have your intake cooled and protected now get your exhaust manifold wrapped or ceramic coated. This will decrease the engine bay temp and increase the burn and scavenging effect of your exhaust. The 3.8l series1 exhaust manifold has no need for major porting but a polish and a ceramic coating is worth it.

Also always look around for yourself and you will find this information for yourself there are alot of self-proclaimed know it alls. You never know where they received their information. It’s funny because everyone has a gimmick but you will find the truth as you find them all having some theories that are the same. Some stores and product lines even contradict themselves. lol always do your own research.

Ty

88delta88 · Joined: 09 Jun 2003 Posts: 2407 Location: Canada

I wasnt looking to eliminate the MAF, since its a vital part of the fuel injection system. But the fact that the MAF on this engine reduces the overall intake tube size, looks like it could be a restriction problem. But I am not going to touch it or the screen.

I'll have to design a nice ram air system, maybe I'll cut a hole in my hood and put a big air scoop on it, followed by jacking up the rear of the car, installing some nice 12 or 14" deep dish rims and slick tires... After which I will be installing a wing on the back of the car, one of those big ones, to keep the back of the car on the road at those high speeds I'll be acheiving :-) I cant stop there, I am still going to be decaling my car all up with "RACTIVE" stickers and stuff that my car really doesnt have, to instill a sense of fear in other drivers.

Just joking, by the way! :-) Anyways, I think a cold air intake, now that I have some real information on them, is a good idea. But nothing to really modify the motor, or the way my car drives. She's still my daily driver. Thanks for the info, guys.

Spinmaster30 · Joined: 09 Jun 2003 Posts: 4 Location: Michigan

actually having a cold air intake makes you lose the amount of mpg you get but just slightly.

73Delta88 · Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 9:03 pm Post subject:

My ‘73 actually came with a air temperature regulating "system" that uses a temp sensor in the air cleaner to open or close a vacuum operated valve that directs where the intake air comes from.

When the valve is closed (cold engine) it pulls in heated air from right above the exhaust manifold.

As the engine warms up the valve opens partially or completely and just pulls air from the normal spot off the air cleaner (there's a pic of my engine in my album where you can see most of it)

I think just about every car from that generation had that. I guess the idea is that a warm engine burns less gas than a cold one, so the heated air going into the carb heats the engine up faster, thus reducing the amount of "warm up time" when it would be burning more gas.

Whether or not it actually makes a significant difference I have no idea. (<-- any comment stroker?) It's pretty much the only thing left on my engine that has anything to do with emission controls.