The Oldsmobile Connection

91parkave · Joined: 29 May 2007 Posts: 518

Split from this thread.

You are a true politician,
I stated my opinion and a real resource, a company the makes s1 camshafts, sooooooooo im curious whats the total bill for a custom grind cam from the manufactures im suggested? please answer the question only this time

88 Coupe · Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 5:48 am Post subject: Re: S1 3800 Cam question

91buickman wrote: You are a true politician ........
Name calling/flaming is not the path to learning what you do not know.

91buickman wrote: ........ whats the total bill for a custom grind cam ........
Custom grinds are a different topic.

If you would like to start a new thread, maybe you will get some input from an engine builder.

Here it is, again:

88 Coupe wrote: 91buickman wrote: ........ and would cost more that a custom ground cam ........ Not what I said.
Norm

andrewk · Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 1236 Location: Ames, IA

91parkave wrote: You are a true politician,
I stated my opinion and a real resource, a company the makes s1 camshafts, sooooooooo im curious whats the total bill for a custom grind cam from the manufactures im suggested? please answer the question only this time

None so blind, as those that refuse to see.

91parkave · Joined: 29 May 2007 Posts: 518

A custom ground cam is what you mentioned because neither crane or comp cam companies make camshafts for a GM 3800 v6- norm, I asked whats the total bill for the cam you suggested....i dont see that as a juvenile attempt at diverting this conversation, Maybe a miscommunication but seriously get off your ego and answer the question-you brought Crane and comp cams INTO this conversation so what would the bill be to have a custom cam done, because they dont make them at all for the engine in question???? i ask that so i have a better comparison for cost effectiveness between the manufacturers..simple enough?

As for andrewk stop nut riding you have nothing to say at all that is on topic- follow the etiquette rules

andrewk · Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 1236 Location: Ames, IA

91parkave wrote: A custom ground cam is what you mentioned because neither crane or comp cam companies make camshafts for a GM 3800 v6- norm, I asked whats the total bill for the cam you suggested....i dont see that as a juvenile attempt at diverting this conversation, Maybe a miscommunication but seriously get off your ego and answer the question-you brought Crane and comp cams INTO this conversation so what would the bill be to have a custom cam done, because they dont make them at all for the engine in question???? i ask that so i have a better comparison for cost effectiveness between the manufacturers..simple enough?

Ok- This isn't rocket science. I'll take a quote from our resident 3800 expert, James, on custom cam cost. His figure is representitive what I have seen for a ballpark custom cam, in both V6 and V8 applications.

Turbocharged400sbc wrote:
A custom cam grind with SI journals and SII lobe phasing/pattern is around 300$ (some places maybe cheaper)

Since that is an exotic grind, it is probably safe to assume that a custom ground cam for the S1, with the S1 phasing will be cheaper than that, if only marginally.

Now from the land down under- I will report back with the price plus customs fees as soon as they email me back.

Quote: As for andrewk stop nut riding you have nothing to say at all that is on topic- follow the etiquette rules

When you are in charge, you can give orders. Until then, GFY. When you start to follow them when you talk to others, I will follow them when I talk to you. Until then, GFY. I have plenty to say that is on topic, as you can see above.

91parkave · Joined: 29 May 2007 Posts: 518

Good thank you for getting the prices, so we can have a accurate comparison

-as for your GFY i feel the same way about you to sweetheart...

andrewk · Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 1236 Location: Ames, IA

I did not obtain a price from Crow Cams, but here is what their rep wrote to me.

Crow Cams rep wrote: Definitely the cost of shipping to the US would be prohitive. Suggest you
contact ZZ Performance in Michigan or Intense Racing in Ohio who are both V6
specialists

'Nuff said.

91parkave · Joined: 29 May 2007 Posts: 518

yea...guy that dosent apply to series 1 motors cams, hell we all know series 2 motors have cams available from zzperformance, intense, stattama, the point of the matter is series 1 cams are diffrent i seriously doubt crane or comp cams is going to do grind p a custom cam for a price that is reasonable

andrewk · Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 1236 Location: Ames, IA

Cripes...

It will cost you more to ship a cam made in AU to the USA than it will to have the same cam ground by an engine builder. That is what has been said by more than one person here, and by the people that make these cams in AU. What more do you want?

I don't think you understand what a custom grind is. A custom ground cam is not anything special other than they are made to order. They cost more than an off the shelf grind because they don't have a production run, but they are not astronomical in price because they aren't that hard to make when you have a manufacturer that possesses the proper equipment, such as any one of the shops listed. An unground cam is called a master, and what the cam company needs to do is enter in the specs of the cam into their machine, and let it go to work. After the grinding process, the cam is treated to the same things all the other cams the company produces are subjected to, such as hardening.

91parkave wrote: i seriously doubt crane or comp cams is going to do grind p a custom cam for a price that is reasonable

They do it all the time.

91parkave · Joined: 29 May 2007 Posts: 518

OK calm down- Im merley looking for a ball park figure for my own between ordering he cam from australia or having a custom grind done - I was looking for numbers to work with, Not an explanation of how a custom ground cam is made, because i already knew that, you need to take a zanex or something andrew, Like i said before i wanted the figures since Norm suggested that in the first place i assumed he's had them done or might have some ball park figure of how much it would cost to get a cam re-spec'd. simple enough? but i assume nobody will be able to produce anykind of real world numbers including myself so when i do have some free money i can spend ill update this thread with a real world cost.

andrewk · Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 1236 Location: Ames, IA

91parkave wrote: I was looking for numbers to work with

That would be the subject of a different thread. If you need help making one, let me know.

91parkave wrote: Not an explanation of how a custom ground cam is made, because i already knew that

Then you would know they aren't extremely expensive.

91parkave wrote: you need to take a zanex or something andrew

Why?

91parkave wrote: ke i said before i wanted the figures since Norm suggested that in the first place i assumed he's had them done or might have some ball park figure of how much it would cost to get a cam re-spec'd.

Been answered. Around 300 bucks, maybe cheaper.

91parkave wrote: get a cam re-spec'd

What is that supposed to mean? You mean that you want a cam specified your build?

91parkave wrote: ill update this thread with a real world cost.

Start another thread that appropriately addresses the subject, instead of mucking up this one more-

88 Coupe · Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:56 am Post subject: Re: S1 3800 Cam question

91buickman wrote: A custom ground cam is what you mentioned ........
Not what I said.

Here it is again:

88 Coupe wrote: 91buickman wrote: ........ and would cost more that a custom ground cam ........ Not what I said.
Stop your childish BS, find whatever you think I said, and post the quote.

91buickman wrote: ........ I asked whats the total bill for the cam you suggested ........
And I answered it before you asked it.

Here it is again:

88 Coupe wrote: 91buickman wrote: Crane or Comp do not offer a cam for series 1 engines ........ According to their websites, they do not. Doesn't mean they will not grind one for an engine builder. Terry at FCR should be able handle it ........
If he is too far away from you, here is one that is closer to Atlanta: http://www.mahdavimotorsports.com/

Or, if you are no longer on good terms with them, the one I gave you, in this post, is only a bit farther.

91buickman wrote: ........ you brought Crane and comp cams into this conversation ........
Obviously. But, they are not the only alternatives I brought up.

Here it is again:

88 Coupe wrote: ........ There are still hundreds of cam grinders in the US. Cam Motion is another example of one that has a website.
Finding it hard to keep up?

91buickman wrote: ........ so what would the bill be to have a custom cam done ........
Here it is again:

88 Coupe wrote: 91buickman wrote: ........ whats the total bill for a custom grind cam ........ Custom grinds are a different topic.

If you would like to start a new thread, maybe you will get some input from an engine builder ........
Or you can start one on ROP, where there are several competent engine builders who will tell you to call them for pricing.

91buickman wrote: ........ because they dont make them at all for the engine in question? ........
Here it is again:

88 Coupe wrote: ........ Crane and Comp Cams already have cams for our Buicks ........
Try to keep up

91buickman wrote: ........ i ask that so i have a better comparison for cost effectiveness between the manufacturers ........
Call any engine builder, tell them exactly what you want, and they will quote you a price.

91buickman wrote: ........ As for andrewk stop nut riding ........
It was a simple statement of fact. Read what is there, not what you think is there.

91buickman wrote: ........ you have nothing to say at all that is on topic ........
It was more on topic, than your "custom cam" diversion.

91buickman wrote: ........ follow the etiquette rules ........
Coming from you, that, is funny.

Norm

andrewk · Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 1236 Location: Ames, IA

I received a second reply from the people at Crow.

Quote: If you have difficultlies - come back to me- if we seafreight through our
Missisippi ware house (8 weeks leadtime) you would be looking at a total cost
of US$600 for the cam

You won't have a problem getting it done for less stateside. Of course, I am sure we will have to say that a few more times before it sinks in.

88 Coupe · Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:39 am Post subject: Re: S1 3800 Cam question

Quote: ........ seafreight through our Missisippi warehouse ........
Looks like Crow and Yella Terra use the same warehouse.

Crow wrote: ........ a total cost
of US$600 for the cam
That should make it a little over $400 difference, for a Holden grind.

Norm

88 Coupe · Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:50 am Post subject: Re: S1 3800 Cam question

andrewk wrote: Turbocharged400sbc wrote:
A custom cam grind with SI journals and SII lobe phasing/pattern is around 300$ (some places maybe cheaper) Since that is an exotic grind ........
It's a custom grind. As I said before (several times) that makes it another topic.

andrewk wrote: They cost more than an off the shelf grind because they don't have a production run ........
The cam we are discussing, shouldn't cost any more than one on the shelf, as long as an existing master is used. The cam can be done between runs, with little increase in cost. They will eat the difference for a regular account, such as an engine builder, and the cost to the consumer will not change.

andrewk wrote: ........ An unground cam is called a master ........
It is called a core.

If a new master has to be made in order to grind a profile that does not exist, it is called a custom grind and the extra charge is to cover tooling costs.

Before CNC, the master was a piece of machine tooling, with the actual profile of the lobe that was to be ground. It controlled the lobes relationship to the grinding wheel, as needed.

The wheel is stationary and turns at a high RPM, while the camshaft moves in and out, following the master, while rotating at a low RPM.

No doubt, CNC has changed things a bit.

andrewk wrote: ........ After the grinding process, the cam is treated to the same things all the other cams the company produces are subjected to, such as hardening ........
Case hardening is done before the grind, not after.

Norm