The Oldsmobile Connection

85cieraholiday · Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 4:55 pm Post subject: Changed the oil

Just gave the Olds a oil/oil filter changer, new spark plugs and a new valve over gasket. Runs so much smoother without the engine skipping (due to plugs that got fouled due to the oil leak). 8) 8) 8) 8) :D 8)

86Delta · Joined: 06 Nov 2003 Posts: 281 Location: NJ, USA

good job, those valve cover gaskets are pretty easy to do, not much in the way. how did the plugs get fouled from a leaking valve cover gasket?

i just put a new power steering pump on my car, it was original with 276,600 miles on it. it whined even going straight. the pump i put on has less than half the miles on it (got it from one of my parts cars with 100,000 on it) so it should last another 170,000. next saturday i am changing the oil, crank seal, oil pan gasket and the trans fluid.

85cieraholiday · Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:43 pm Post subject:

86 DElta, the plugs got foul because oil leaked out of the valve cover, and into the spark plug holes. The oil grounds out the plug and fouls it. That maked it skip.

88delta88 · Joined: 09 Jun 2003 Posts: 2400 Location: Canada

something sounds funny about that... might be other problems if that's the case...

85cieraholiday · Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 8:27 pm Post subject:

I dont know, my dad's mechanic who walked me through the gasket said thats how it happened, the gasket is above the spark plugs on my car, so it just drips down.

strokercutlass · Joined: 09 Jun 2003 Posts: 379 Location: Wis

most likely it wasn't the plugs at all...what generally happens is that the oil leaking into the plug holes causes the plug wires to arc off and misfire..by replacing the plugs, you temporarily removed the path of least resistance by cleaning up the oil in the holes..I'd spring for a new set of plug wires, as I see some more misfiring issues in your future due to the plug wires being soaked in oil...

86Delta · Joined: 06 Nov 2003 Posts: 281 Location: NJ, USA

i agree with stroker, get some new plug wires. don't know why your mechanic wouldn't have changed the plug wires too, if a car comes in with a miss that is usually the first thing to be checked. your mechanic's explaination sounds a little funny.

85cieraholiday · Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 10:24 pm Post subject:

The wires are less then 1 year old, the only reason that he did the plug was because the oil had fouled 1. The car is used very little right now, so it was more of a cost saving thing, plus there wasn't oil on the wires, just on the plugs where it (the oil) had dripped into the holes.

And my dad's mechanic is a family friend who has worked on the family cars for 25 years. He knows this engine (my dad had it in his 87 Grand Am) and his explination makes sence when you look at the engine to see how the whole thing happened.

The gasket got old(it was 19) and leaked. It really had been leaking for some time (at least 2 or 3 years). The oil that leaked out of the gasket made its way into the spark plug holes (less then 1 inch under the valve cover and its gasket. As the oil got into those holes, it acted like water, grounding out the plugs. This made the plug foul. Because the oil never gushed out, it was a slow leak, it dripped so little it never got onto the wires.

If you look at the engine in person, it makes more sence.

85cieraholiday · Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 10:26 pm Post subject:

And I have the fouled plug by the way, the miss was due to the plug. And yes I know its the plug that was in the car since I was standing right next to him in my garage.

86Delta · Joined: 06 Nov 2003 Posts: 281 Location: NJ, USA

first of all, i know what a 2.5 looks like. second of all, oil didn't foul the plug, if it had a dead cylinder fuel fouled the plug. 3rd, the spark does not go through the part of the spark plug with the hex on it so it can have oil all around it and it still won't make a difference. i have seen toyota and honda engines (on 4cyl engines with the plugs in the middle of the valve cover) not to mention more than a few 2.5's, fill the spark plug holes with oil and they ran fine. the spark has no way of getting to that oil around the ouside of the plug because the spark travels through the center of the spark plug and the only way it would arc across that oil is because the plug boot was bad.

strokercutlass · Joined: 09 Jun 2003 Posts: 379 Location: Wis

Quote: The gasket got old(it was 19) and leaked. It really had been leaking for some time (at least 2 or 3 years). The oil that leaked out of the gasket made its way into the spark plug holes (less then 1 inch under the valve cover and its gasket. As the oil got into those holes, it acted like water, grounding out the plugs. This made the plug foul. Because the oil never gushed out, it was a slow leak, it dripped so little it never got onto the wires.

85 ciera...not trying to start a pissing match, however, the ONLY way the oil could have grounded out the spark plug itself was if the porcelain was cracked..lets create a little scenario, shall we? You stated that as the oil got into the holes, it acted like water and grounded out the plugs..first off this explanation doesn't hold much value because of the fact that, for the most part, a high energy ignition system is designed to be a sealed system, and will fire even when wet or damp. If what you say is true, then every time a person washes their engine or drives thru a puddle and gets the plugs wet, the engine "should" die. The spark plug is ALREADY grounded, by the simple fact of screwing it into the block. The only way the plug itself would get grounded enough to misfire and foul is if the electrical path got grounded to the least point of resistance, and this would only happen in one of two ways...1. by the porcelain on the spark plug being cracked, therefore allowing the spark to ground out the side of the plug thru the porcelain to the oil, or 2. for the spark to ground out and arc between the plug wire boot and the plug itself, which is what I'm guessing happened here. Oil will not foul a plug just because its semi submersed in it, as 86 Delta said. Oil or fuel CAN foul a plug at the electrode at the end the spark plug where it goes into the cylinder, but not on top unless there are other circumstances contributing to it. A plug wire which has no dielectric grease installed in the boot can misfire even when the plugs and wires are brand new. Since you said the wires are only a year old, I'm guessing perhaps there wasn't enough grease in the boots to create a proper seal, and that the plug wire was misfiring to the oil, which would make it appear that the plug itself was fouling, since the spark was never reaching it. Replacing the plug and repositioning the plug boot on a new plug would very likely clear up the problem, at least temporarily, and make it appear that the plug was at fault. Heck the plug MAY have been bad,due to a burned electrode, cracked porcelain, or poor contact, but being semi submersed in oil wasn't the sole reason of what caused it to be bad

85cieraholiday · Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:33 pm Post subject:

I aint gonna keep going back and forth over this, the mechanic knows whats he is doing, the car runs much better, and other then $30 for parts and a old tee-shirt, it didnt cost me anything. An this guy is a prof. mechanic by the way, has been for 30 years.

strokercutlass · Joined: 09 Jun 2003 Posts: 379 Location: Wis

I wasn't going to go here, but since my mood is pissy ever since I read the anti rice topic and noticed that you really "helped" us on Anti Rice.com.... :roll:

Quote: An this guy is a prof. mechanic by the way, has been for 30 years.

And this is supposed to impress me HOW exactly? I've been an ASE certified Master Tech for 14 years now, not to mention running a 7 bay shop employing 11 people for the past 5 years, so throwing the "professional mechanic" thing out does absolutely nothing for me. Alot of people say they're a professional mechanic, few actually are. Oil WILL NOT "ground out" a spark plug...it plain and simple physics and electrical fact. If you believe that, hell, more power to ya...you're young, with obviously little experience in automotive ignition and electronics systems, I'll even give ya that...BUT, when you come on here and make a comment like "oil grounded my plugs out and made my car miss", someone with little automotive repair knowledge might actually BELIEVE this, when its not physically possible, and could cause more harm than good, or cost them money they don't need to spend, and thats when I have to draw the line and call "bullshit".

Sorry for the rant, Brando, but I'm sure you saw this coming, bro....

Brando · Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 3049 Location: Michigan, USA

Totally understandable....oil is non-conductive, it doesn't carry electricity so it wouldn't be possible for the spark plugs to ground out...

TOC Admin
Brando

OldsGuy · Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 269 Location: Lees Summit MO

Guys, Iv'e been reading this without comment. Now, one statement and that's it. Strokercutlass knows his stuff and is usually "calm and collected" he doesn't flame, but, he doesn't let shit float either. He's right this time.