The Oldsmobile Connection

[speedy266]

HEYYYYY i just went to RSM racing today! I was talking to the owner about the possibilities there are with my rare engine. They can do a custom superchargering job and custom fab all my pullies for a serpentine belt system, custom intake, bored throttle body, it'll be running at 9psi. It's gonna cost about $7000 canadian, stock numbers 125HP 195 ft-lbs, numbers after est. 280HP 390ft-lbs. It'll take about 6-8 weeks to install. The blower will be for the near future. This summer im gonna get an intake and get my throttle body bored out a bit. I cant wait!

[furyolds]

thats an assloadof money :p haha i brather buy a new car that comes iwth a factory supercharger cause it owuld be more reliable

[Brando]

Hell! More power too ya dude!
I inquired about a Supercharger a couple years ago from them....
Let us know how it goes when/if you get it done!
:twisted:

TOC Admin
Brando

[BigBlockOlds]

So are you rebuilding the engine to handle the supercharger? If not, all I can say is KABOOM!!

Nitrous, superchargers, and turbos are NOT just bolt on items. Even though the magazines would like you to think so.

If you want it to be reliable you need to build the engine so that it can take the extra force.

[furyolds]

ya sell your car buy another one that has a factory supercharger and then get a newer supercharger for it

[license2ill]

furyolds wrote: ya sell your car buy another one that has a factory supercharger and then get a newer supercharger for it
I agree. It probably would be alot cheaper to drop a fairly new Monte SS 3.8 s/c'd motor in your car instead!

[furyolds]

ya dude..that would be m@d tyt3

[speedy266]

The engine was rebuilt in Late November. The owner of RSM was telling me about an old engine not being able to hold up. It has some stronger aftermarket parts in it. A beefy timing chain with good timing gears, these engines are known to have the nylon teeths being chewed up. The stock compression ratio is 8:1 i didnt have that increased. So it shouldnt have any problems with that. Im gonna rebuild my tranny in sept-oct as well.

I wouldnt mind havin a monte carlo SS 3.8 in there. But that would be alot of work and money. Basically nothing in my car would hook up to that motor. I would need so many new parts. If the body and interior is still in good condition after this engine dies, then i will most likely swap in a new 3.8 at that time. Im guessing after 15 years or 300000km on this engine lol.

If im driving normally then i wont have problems of KABOOM right? Its only when its in the high RPM's will the pistons and connecting rods feel the extra force on them correct?

[BigBlockOlds]

If your going to drive normally then why install a supercharger? :lol: I'll tell you right now, no matter how much you may think you won't "drive it like you stole it", after you get a power boost something like that would give, you won't be able to resist.

Did you upgrade the pistons when the engine was rebuilt or are they still just standard cast pistons? What about the main bolts, connecting rod bolts, etc?

I don't want to talk you out of something like this but, spending $7000 on a supercharger setup and putting on a relatively stock built engine could have you rebuilding that engine again in short order. Especially if your timing and fuel curves are not setup properly.

Just as a point of reference, there are two friends of my brother's here in town. They both own 4cyl Cavaliers. One spend $7000 on a turbo setup for his and the other took out a loan at the bank to pay for a supercharger setup.
Both put these on STOCK engines thinking they were just bolt-ons.
The one with the turbo cracked a head and now is rebuilding the engine to handle the turbo.
The one with the supercharger is going through transmissions left and right. He is only running 5lbs of boost right now but is going to go up to 9lbs. He will destroy is stock engine in no time I'm sure.

And to make things better, they both ran a whopping 14.8 seconds in the 1/4. The one with the supercharger had a Z24 once and had it running 15.4's stock.

I would think for that $7000 price tag you might be able to find a wrecked GTP and grab its engine? Maybe not.

speedy266 wrote: If im driving normally then i wont have problems of KABOOM right? Its only when its in the high RPM's will the pistons and connecting rods feel the extra force on them correct?

[vista461]

$7K??
You would be way better off buying a GTP, S/C'd Regal GS or even a S/C'd LSS, they have a better version of the 3.8 AND there is aftermarket support for them with the stock setup (pulley swaps,intercoolers etc.). There are guys around here (Milwaukee) running low 12's with modded GTP's .

[speedy266]

naw it was just a question, the time when the engine would be under the most stress is in the higher rpm range.

The pistons have been upgraded, not sure about wat company there from or specs of them though, connecting rods have not been changed i believe. All the bolts have been changed, most likely better then stock strenght bolts.

The owner (Nelson) was telling me that they have to reprogram the ECU to match the fuel and timing and watever else thats needed. Thats where i think most of the money is from the labour.

The engine not being strong enough i dont think is the issue at all. I have basically the exact same engine as a Buick Grand National, those came with turbos. The things they needed to change on the engine were the manifold, throttle body placement and fuel realated parts stuff like that. Im not trying to say ur wrong bigblockolds that my engine wont blow up. Arent cavaliers Alminum head and block?

http://www.fast-autos.net/buick/buickgnx.html

In not sure with wat PSI they come with stock, but many GN owners are boosting them into the high teens low 20's with stock internals. Some with beefed up internals are into the 30 psi range.

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/features/HTP_0403_BUICK/

[strokercutlass]

Quote: The engine not being strong enough i dont think is the issue at all. I have basically the exact same engine as a Buick Grand National, those came with turbos

NOT true...the only things the FWD 3800 engine and the GN 3.8 liter engine basically have in common is displacement. The GN RWD engine is a totally different design than the 3800 FWD engine. Also, when you state the following:
Quote: In not sure with wat PSI they come with stock, but many GN owners are boosting them into the high teens low 20's with stock internals. Some with beefed up internals are into the 30 psi range.


the 3.8 liter GN engine is built specifically to handle the added use of a turbo...engine specific pistons, camshafts, and heavier duty internals are included in the GN turbo 3.8 which weren't installed in the earlier non turbo and non intercooled 3.8 engines..comparing this design of 3.8 engine(factory high performance built, heavier duty internals, etc) to your stock 3.8 fuel injected non boosted engine is like comparing apples to oranges...they're two entirely different animals.

You posted a link to an 8 second Buick GN with a 3.8 turbo.....did you closely read what all he DID to reach that mark?...alot more than simple boltons...basically every piece of the engine has been replaced with a piece destined for hard abuse. 31 psi yes...but at what cost???

I'm not saying its a bad idea to S/C your engine...I just think you're a bit disillusioned as to what must be done for it to run properly and hold together for any length of time....its not as simple as "bolt on and go" for any type of serious, realistic horsepower gains.....

[speedy266]

Just wondering, you say the GN engine is a totally different design. Do you for sure of this, or are assuming it? Im not 100% sure i wasnt head engineer at buick in 1985:P, let alone was i even born at that time.

I know that the GNX had to have had beefy internals, But if u took a 1985 GN 3.8 Turbo and my 85 ciera 3.8. What differences and similarities would there be?

I know theres alot involved to make this run properly and safely etc.
I was thinking if i could get a knob to control the boost, ive heard of people with turbos controlling there boost with just a turn of a knob, Is that possible with a supercharged engine? Cause i do want my engine to last at least 200,000km after the superchager. Most of the time i wont be booting it, so i wouldnt wanna be running 9psi. Is there a minimum i can turn the boost down to, if i can control the boost that easily?

[BigBlockOlds]

speedy266 wrote: Just wondering, you say the GN engine is a totally different design. Do you for sure of this, or are assuming it? Im not 100% sure i wasnt head engineer at buick in 1985:P, let alone was i even born at that time.

What Stoker said is true. The FWD and RWD 3.8's have very little in common. Even comparing the N/A 3.8's to the Turbo'd 3.8's is comparing apples to oranges.



Quote: I know theres alot involved to make this run properly and safely etc.
I was thinking if i could get a knob to control the boost, ive heard of people with turbos controlling there boost with just a turn of a knob, Is that possible with a supercharged engine?

No.



Quote: Cause i do want my engine to last at least 200,000km after the superchager. Most of the time i wont be booting it, so i wouldnt wanna be running 9psi. Is there a minimum i can turn the boost down to, if i can control the boost that easily?

The way you change the boost output of a supercharger is by changing the diameter of the pulley that rotates it. So you would have to physically remove one pulley and bolt on another.

On a turbocharged engine, the boost is controlled by a wastegate that will bleed off exhaust pressure at a predetermined point. So with a boost controller, you are basically adjusting how soon the wastegate will open.

[strokercutlass]

Quote: Just wondering, you say the GN engine is a totally different design. Do you for sure of this, or are assuming it?

I am without a doubt 100% certain they're different. I can tell you this from the experience of owning a turbo Buick personally as well as owning and working on several FWD Olds 88's and 98's thru our shop.

Quote: I know that the GNX had to have had beefy internals, But if u took a 1985 GN 3.8 Turbo and my 85 ciera 3.8. What differences and similarities would there be?


the only main similarities between the two is the fact that they both came in GM cars... :lol: Otherwise they won't interchange between transmissions, accessory mountings are different, as well as most everything else between the two engines both physically and mechanically.

The early GN 3.8 turbo's, later GN 3.8 turbo's, and GNX turbos were all different horsepower ratings...one if the main differences on the early model GN's and previous Regal T Types and LeSabre turbo coupes which make them less desireable and cheaper to come by is the lack of an intercooler for the turbo, which creates less horsepower and costs a bit more in the end to modify than a later model intercooled GN.

While the GNX is based off a GN platform, its not really fair to compare that to a standard GN, due to engine, body, and suspension modifications, and the limited 1 year production run.