88 Coupe wrote:
........ It would be less confusing if you posted the actual quote instead of an apology ........
You added more confusion. The goal is to eliminate it, in order to promote accurate communication. This is done by deleting the parts one is not responding to, and retaining only those parts that are relevant to the actual post, by using using the ["quote"] and ["/quote"] codes.
Maybe
this link will help. If I must, I will work with whatever you choose to post. In this case, it took even longer for me to recode it.
Back on topic.
Here is your quote again. I simplified it by removing the irrelevant parts.
Setting the Pace wrote:
........ On returning from a jaunt to Phoenix, ........ Engineer ........ petitioned Chief Engineer ........ and division head ........ to put the Rocket ........ into the junior platform ........ bolstering his plea with some amazing data ........ and went to GM's top management. Though he met with some resistance, he carried the day ........
Other than the first paragraph, there is nothing in your original post that was not already common knowledge.
starfire wrote:
........ it's not like the guys on the line could just start making cars as they wanted ........
88 Coupe wrote:
No one said they could.
........ Well you said: "The "88" modification was done without management (and therefore) Oldsmobile's knowledge."
I did not say anything about guys or lines.
Read what is there, not what you think is there.
Quote:
........ who did? Keebler elves? ........
What are Keebler elves? What do they have to do with this topic?
starfire wrote:
88 Coupe wrote:
........ Excellent resource. But like any other source, it is only accurate if the quote fits the context of the discussion ........
It does fit the context of the discussion ........
I did not say it did, or did not.
Read what is there, not what you think is there.
starfire wrote:
88 Coupe wrote:
........ Did they (management) find out about it before, or after, the first one was built? ........
Management (Skinner) was one of the driving forces behind the project ........
Not what I asked.
Read what is there, not what you think is there.
starfire wrote:
88 Coupe wrote:
........ Who built the first one? ........
........ I don't have the names of the line workers who built the first "88" ........
I did not ask for names of anyone.
Read what is there, not what you think is there.
starfire wrote:
........ These questions do not pertain to this discussion .........
They address the statements you quoted from your book. Your inability to answer them, shows:
1. How much of the story is missing.
2. You lack the background knowledge you need to fill in the blanks.
starfire wrote:
........ As far as I know, the trip to AZ had nothing to do directly with the development of the 88. It was just on the trip back where he got the idea ........
It does not sound like you got this from your book.
starfire wrote:
........ Though he met with some resistance, he carried the day ........
88 Coupe wrote:
Resistance, in what form? Did he cite the sales success of the '36 Buick Century as a selling point?
........ Some of the resistance was the fact that Cadillac was objecting to Oldsmobile having a V-8 engine .........
Not possible. The 303 was a V8. It was in the 98s that were already on the streets.
starfire wrote:
........ So Oldsmobile did create the Rocket 88 by ........
88 Coupe wrote:
Not exactly.
“88” was the car model. “Rocket” was the engine ........
........ What do you mean by "Not exactly" ........
Exactly what I said.
starfire wrote:
88 Coupe wrote:
........ “88” was the car model. “Rocket” was the engine ........
........ Put the two together and you get "Rocket 88" ........
Madison avenue mentality would be a different topic. If you would like to discuss it, start another thread.
starfire wrote:
........ according to STP, many people at Olds (sorry, it doesn't list them by name) wanted to call the new engine the "Kettering Engine". This was not allowed as GM had a rule against naming products after living persons.
More common knowledge that has nothing to do with this discussion?
starfire wrote:
........ Where's your documentation for this? ........
We are talking about your documentation, not mine.
starfire wrote:
........ In 1949 the 76 series had a MT as standard equipment, but both the 88 and the 98 had Hydromatic as standard ........
The correct spelling (and pronunciation) is Hydramatic, with an A. “Hydro” was/is the slang version, first used in the late fifties.
Manual trans 88 or 98 was not available in '49. It was, however, standard in the '49 Cad and Buick.
starfire wrote:
........ In 1948 and in 1950 all Oldsmobiles had a MT as standard equipment ........
More common knowledge.
starfire wrote:
........ I do not have any information as to why the 49 offerings were different. .........
The reason was well known, at the time. I'm surprised it was not included in your book.
88 Coupe wrote:
starfire wrote:
........ It was a mid year release ........
That was because the 88 wasn't planned. If it had been, a manual trans would have been offered ........
Didn't your book give a reason why the '49 Olds 88 and 98 were the only production cars, in the world, that did not did not have MT as standard equipment?
starfire wrote:
........ I do not have any information as to why the 49 offerings were different ........
'48 and earlier trans were not capable of handling the 303. They could only use what they had.
starfire wrote:
88 Coupe wrote:
In terms of potential sales, the lack of a MT, put the new 88 at an extreme disadvantage.
........ Where is YOUR source for this statement? ........
Again, we are discussing your source, not mine.
starfire wrote:
........ Doesn't sound to me like the lack of a MT hurt sales too much ........
I did not say it did.
Read what is there, not what you think is there.
starfire wrote:
88 Coupe wrote:
Does the book offer any insight into this area? ........
........ No, other than the fact that GM was trying to sell Hydramatic transmissions ........
Common knowledge. How is it relevant.
starfire wrote:
........ not released "after the fact" ........
88 Coupe wrote:
........After which fact? ........
........ I don't know ........
You do not know, because you did not read my statement before posting your correction.
Have you wondered why I ask questions before I commit myself to a discussion?
To find out if the poster knows something I do not. If so, I will learn everything I can, by asking more questions. If not, a discussion will start, and everyone will be able to learn from it.
Either way, I will challenge anything I do not understand.
starfire wrote:
........ I will stick with my original statement ........
Like all of us, you have the right to be wrong.
Norm