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 Post subject: Engine swap
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:21 pm 
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I apologize ahead of time for my long-windedness, but here goes...

I've been looking for a winter beater for this winter, There is an 86 2 door Delta 88 that I was looking at, here's the story on it: The car was bought by my grandmother brand new in 86, she BABIED it and took immaculate care of it (she actually knows quite a bit about how to take care of a car). About 2 years ago she stopped driving because of health reasons and gave the car to my aunt. My aunt beat the living crap out of this poor car. It didn't get smashed or anything but she's the type that will notice that the oil light or temp light is on and just keep on driving. Well eventually it broke down and got pushed into a field where it sat for a few months. My younger brother was just getting his license a few months ago and my aunt offered to give him the car, telling him that a mechanic checked it out and all it needed was a head gasket. The car got towed over to the Olds dealer where it was serviced before my aunt got her hands on it and turns out it needed a lot more than a head gasket. The radiator was blown and the water pump was bad so they replaced those first. Only to find out that the head gasket isn't blown, but there is a "crack" somewhere in the engine that opens up when the engine heats up. My brother just kinda dis-owned the car and bought something else, and now the Delta 88 is sitting at the dealer with a new radiator, water pump, and a junk engine, and what a surprise, no one wants to pay the bill! :lol:
I took a look at the car and the body and interior are in near perfect condition, the body has one little spot where it's kinda punky, but it's not bad at all considering it's age. There is a 88 Delta 88 2 door at the same dealership that was in an accident with a fire hydrant so it's a little smashed up, but the engine "supposedly" runs and I can get the whole car for $100 (special deal just for me because I used to work there and the family that owns the place goes way back with my family, etc etc) The engine is the same EFI 3.8 as the other car. The "donor engine" has about 150K miles on it.
But then... I found out that my dad's friend has a 89 Bonneville that was in a small crash, and he said that if I want the engine he'd give it to me for next to nothing If I had his friend who owns a repair shop do the swap. The Bonneville has about 90K on it and it's MPI. I'm not 100% sure if the 89 MPI 3.8 from the Bonneville will work in the 86 Delta that has an EFI 3.8 right now. I know for sure that the Bonneville engine is in perfect running condition.

So the BIG QUESTION IS:

Do I buy the $100 88 Delta 88 with the questionable engine (someone who I know wouldn’t B.S. me told me it runs, but It has 150K on it and I never personally saw it run) The engine is exactly the same as the one in the 86 I'd be putting it in, so that would make it a little easier, and it would be nice to have a parts car.

Or do I go for the "basically free" 89 3.8 MPI form the Bonneville that has 90K on it and have this guy do the swap... (IF it can even be done without too much hassle <---- comment Machismo?) Replacing the 86 EFI 3.8 with an 89 MPI 3.8



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:39 pm 
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I am thinking the 86 3.8L would definately be a much easier swap, but 150k miles you do have to question the reliability of the engine, it might need parts to be replaced or even rebuild it from the ground up.

The 89 3.8L would probably be best in relability as it is not only newer but you said it only has 90k miles and you know it runs. Plus you said it is "basically free"! One thing that brings to question is if the computer will need to be swapped too. Transmission should bolt up fine to this engine, as I believe they both use the 440T4 (right Machismo?). Looking at pictures, they 89 is really no different to an 86 or 87 by just looking at it (except for that plastic cover), intake is on the same side....should bolt up fine, might need to swap computers though, have to see what Machismo says on that.

Oh yea, and I remember about this topic before the crash.. :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2003 11:37 pm 
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yes, I did mention it once before the crash, but I didn't have another engine to put in that car... now I have 2! I know one of them is going to go in there! I think even if I can get that 89 MPI from the bonneville in there I will still buy the 100 dollar 88 Delta 88.... even if I only get a few parts out of it, it will still be worth 100 bucks. I talked to one of the mechanics at the shop and he said the 89 engine would definitely work in in the 86 delta, but it might need a few minor modifications... but who knows what that means


Last edited by 73Delta88 on Sat Nov 08, 2003 12:31 am, edited 2 times in total.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2003 12:06 am 
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well...in my own opinion, while the 89 engine sounds like a good deal, i think if it were me, I'd buy the 86 engine, throw a new timing chain and gears in it, being that it has 150K, drop it in, and drive the hell outta it...150K is just getting broke in on these engines, and i believe you'll have a battle attempting to swap the newer 3.8 in, as i believe there are some design differences, as well as swapping the wiring harness, computer, sensors, etc.....but I would DEFINETLY spend the $$$ for a new timing chain and gears if going with the 86 engine, just for reliabilitys sake, as i doubt it's been changed.....and we know what happens to 3.8's when the timing chains go... :blowup:



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2003 12:21 am 
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The deal was, if I want the 89 engine I can have it for free, but i have to let this guy's friend (who I guess needs the business) do the swap. If this guy wants to do it, and gives me a reasonable price I'll go for it (what do I have to loose?) but it still sounds fishey huh? If I bought the 88 engine, I'd try to do it myself. I have a friend with an engine hoist.... Sounds like one of those times when you just buy a 30 pack and invite a friend over who knows what he's doing!



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2003 2:18 pm 
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this is a tough one... if you can get the engine and trans from the 89, i'd say drop those in because it has a little more power. but without the trans i'd go with the 86 engine with a fresh timing chain.
i say get the engine and trans from the 89 because it is really easy to pull both out the top as a unit, only thing in the way is the master cylinder and i am guessing the donor car is going to be junked so just snip the lines and unbolt it. and also the transmissions in 86 weren't the most durable, so swapping to the later trans will be another plus. another thing to consider when swapping in the 89 is the exhaust, i am pretty sure a 3800 uses a larger pipe coming off the manifold so you might have to just swap the exhaust over from the 89 as well. a computer swap is also needed, as well as the wiring harness for the engine.



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 6:44 pm 
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well, it looks like I'm not going to be going through with any of this. The deal on the 89 MPI engine fell through, because the guy that would have to do the swap didn't want to have to deal with it, with the computers being different and all. (I don't blame him) So my other option would be to put this engine with 150K on it in there, which seems like kind of a gamble especially since i've never seen it run and I can't get it to run right now because the guys from the shop it's sitting behind have been grabing parts from it.

I just don't have the time or patience to try to tackle swaping it myself right now, I thought I could get my hands on an engine hoist, but I just talked to the guy again and he says it's "kinda broken". :roll: and If I go start renting tools this could get even more expensive.

the service manager told me that it would be around a grand in labor to have them do it.... plus the bill that is ALREADY on the car, plus the hundred bucks for the other engine... I'd be spending at LEAST 2 grand on this car by the time it's all said and done. Then I'm in an 86 with a questionable engine... ](*,) doesn't seem to make much sense.

So I'm washing my hands of it! :lol: I picked up a Wheeler Dealer and an Auto Trader on the way home from work and I'm officialy hunting for a winter beater.... time is short! last year we had almost 2 feet of snow by this time, I need something in "turn-key" condition.



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 10:23 pm 
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a grand in labor? seems a little steep. jobs that involve used engines are usually easier to do since you don't have to swap over everything from the old motor. i have done engine swaps in W bodies, engine out before lunch and the new one in and running before i go home.



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 12:05 am 
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hmmm, remember it would involve pulling 2 engines... and instaling one, and then swaping a few electrical parts from the junk engine to the good engine. I dunno, if anyone else thinks that's overkill please let me know. I used to work there and this guy is a friend of mine so I wouldn't think that he wouldn't BS me... but I also wouldn't put it past him to estimate on the high side.... lemie know what you think.



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 11:16 am 
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thats true, i forgot to take into account that the engine has to be pulled from the donor car too. so it might not be a bad price. but once all is said and done you still don't know if the donor engine is any good. so i think you are making the right choice here, start looking in the classifieds.



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