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88delta88
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Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 6:59 pm |
TOC Village Idiot |
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Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2003 5:06 pm Posts: 2415 Images: 40 Location: Canada
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I've been thinking about a device now for a while... I love the throaty sound you get when you replace a stock air box with a cone filter. What could a person do to make that sound LOUDER, or deeper?
I was thinking about sort of a ported enclosure. If tuned properly, would you not be able to get a louder, deeper tone out of the intake?
The other idea I thought of was making a cone to go over the cone filter , sort of like a trumpet.
Any thoughts or input on this? This one's just for fun, no performance gains expected.
_________________ "I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
http://www.cardomain.com/id/88delta88
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88delta88
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Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:49 pm |
TOC Village Idiot |
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Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2003 5:06 pm Posts: 2415 Images: 40 Location: Canada
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91parkave wrote: The only way to effectivley make a deeper sound under load from the intake is to increases the amount of vacum the engine pulls in. I dont agree. A stock air box can silence the sound through use of a tuned air filter enclosure (or resonator if you will). Through use of a differently tuned enclosure, one could change the sound characteristics of the intake. Much like a sub box is very important to the sound pressure level, and desired frequency target of the speaker. How do you think a tuba can take a person's lips buzzing rapidly, and produce such a loud, deep sound? Or an antique record player... etc... 91parkave wrote: .... you'd be wasting your time with the trumpet and other external devices. BTW do you have a LN3 or LG3?
Wasting time, maybe. I'd actually prefer to think of it as an experiment. I'll probably have fun while I'm at it. I have the old LG3 in the delta.... But it still growls pretty nicely at WOT.
_________________ "I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
http://www.cardomain.com/id/88delta88
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andrewk
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Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:45 pm |
TOC Moderator |
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Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 5:42 pm Posts: 1297 Images: 2 Location: Ames, IA
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91parkave wrote: The only way to effectivley make a deeper sound under load from the intake is to increases the amount of vacum the engine pulls in.
Explain.
_________________ Andrew
TOC Moderator
Mark Twain wrote: A man's character may be learned from the adjectives which he habitually uses in conversation.
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andrewk
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Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 7:59 am |
TOC Moderator |
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Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 5:42 pm Posts: 1297 Images: 2 Location: Ames, IA
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Quote: that would happen if you got a biger throttle body, ported your upper intake and/or cylinder heads, cams etc.....
How would any of this increase engine vac? And how does one port a cam?
_________________ Andrew
TOC Moderator
Mark Twain wrote: A man's character may be learned from the adjectives which he habitually uses in conversation.
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91parkave
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Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:05 am |
TOC Member |
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Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 10:25 am Posts: 541 Images: 4
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andrewk wrote: Quote: that would happen if you got a biger throttle body, ported your upper intake and/or cylinder heads, cams etc..... How would any of this increase engine vac? And how does one port a cam?
notice the comma before cam, all of things said above increase the volume of air into the engine
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andrewk
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Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:45 pm |
TOC Moderator |
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Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 5:42 pm Posts: 1297 Images: 2 Location: Ames, IA
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91parkave wrote: andrewk wrote: Quote: that would happen if you got a biger throttle body, ported your upper intake and/or cylinder heads, cams etc..... How would any of this increase engine vac? And how does one port a cam? notice the comma before cam, all of things said above increase the volume of air into the engine
So an increased volume of air moving through the engine results in more engine vacuum? Hmmmmm.....
_________________ Andrew
TOC Moderator
Mark Twain wrote: A man's character may be learned from the adjectives which he habitually uses in conversation.
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91parkave
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Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:54 am |
TOC Member |
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Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 10:25 am Posts: 541 Images: 4
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andrewk wrote: 91parkave wrote: andrewk wrote: Quote: that would happen if you got a biger throttle body, ported your upper intake and/or cylinder heads, cams etc..... How would any of this increase engine vac? And how does one port a cam? notice the comma before cam, all of things said above increase the volume of air into the engine So an increased volume of air moving through the engine results in more engine vacuum? Hmmmmm.....
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anything that allows the engine to pull more air in before the throttle plate
yes.........cams with a bigger overlap, head porting, bigger valves, bigger intake manifold bigger TB. so yea..............
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andrewk
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Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:01 pm |
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Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 5:42 pm Posts: 1297 Images: 2 Location: Ames, IA
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91parkave wrote: anything that allows the engine to pull more air in before the throttle plate yes.........cams with a bigger overlap, head porting, bigger valves, bigger intake manifold bigger TB. so yea..............
Would result in more air moving thru the engine, not more engine vac. Increased valve overlap leads to a decrease in vac. which is why you see many people with big cammed engines move away from vac. boosted brakes, as the engine is not capable of producing enough vac. to power it.
And how does any of that, with the exception of the throttle body, pull more air in BEFORE the throttle plate?
_________________ Andrew
TOC Moderator
Mark Twain wrote: A man's character may be learned from the adjectives which he habitually uses in conversation.
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91parkave
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Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:08 pm |
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Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 10:25 am Posts: 541 Images: 4
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andrewk wrote: 91parkave wrote: anything that allows the engine to pull more air in before the throttle plate yes.........cams with a bigger overlap, head porting, bigger valves, bigger intake manifold bigger TB. so yea.............. Would result in more air moving thru the engine, not more engine vac. Increased valve overlap leads to a decrease in vac. which is why you see many people with big cammed engines move away from vac. boosted brakes, as the engine is not capable of producing enough vac. to power it. And how does any of that, with the exception of the throttle body, pull more air in BEFORE the throttle plate?
they move away with a bigger cam because at IDLE they dont produce enough vacum, under load is another story, which is what were talking about.
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andrewk
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Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:27 pm |
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Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 5:42 pm Posts: 1297 Images: 2 Location: Ames, IA
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91parkave wrote: andrewk wrote: 91parkave wrote: anything that allows the engine to pull more air in before the throttle plate yes.........cams with a bigger overlap, head porting, bigger valves, bigger intake manifold bigger TB. so yea.............. Would result in more air moving thru the engine, not more engine vac. Increased valve overlap leads to a decrease in vac. which is why you see many people with big cammed engines move away from vac. boosted brakes, as the engine is not capable of producing enough vac. to power it. And how does any of that, with the exception of the throttle body, pull more air in BEFORE the throttle plate? they move away with a bigger cam because at IDLE they dont produce enough vacum, under load is another story, which is what were talking about.
You couldn't be more wrong. As the throttle opening increases, load increases and manifold vacuum decreases. The more duration and lift you give an engine, the vacuum decreases proportionally.
_________________ Andrew
TOC Moderator
Mark Twain wrote: A man's character may be learned from the adjectives which he habitually uses in conversation.
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andrewk
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Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:24 am |
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Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 5:42 pm Posts: 1297 Images: 2 Location: Ames, IA
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91parkave wrote: really? so youre saying under load vacum decreases? so then what do you call the increase of air flowing into the engine? i always thought that was vacum You might find this article helpful- http://bankspower.com/Tech_SecrettoMakingPower.cfmThe entire article is good, but these paragraphs specifically- bankspower wrote: Suppose you have a 300-cubic-inch gasoline four-cycle engine. Most of you know how an engine works, but as a simple review, a four-cycle engine has an intake stroke to draw the air/fuel mixture into the cylinder as the piston moves down the cylinder bore, followed by a compression stroke during the following upward movement of the piston. These first two strokes occur during one revolution of the crankshaft (see Fig.1). On the next revolution of the crankshaft, the power stroke occurs as the air/fuel mixture burns pushing the piston down. The following upward movement of the piston is the exhaust stroke. Two revolutions of the crankshaft, four distinct cycles – it’s the basic Otto-cycle piston engine.
By its very design, this means our 300-cubic-inch engine takes in 300 cubic inches of air every two revolutions of the crankshaft. Now here’s the interesting part. It does this whether the throttle is open or closed. But wait, you say. The engine takes in more air when the throttle is open. And while it is true that more air mass flows into the engine when the throttle opens, the engine’s size, or displacement, never changes, so the only actual difference is the density of the air that fills that displacement.
When the throttle is closed, very little air mass flows into the engine, so that small amount has to expand to fill our 300 cubic inches. Thus, the air will be of very low density. As the throttle opens, more air mass can flow in to fill the engine, and the density will increase. This is often called the “charge density”.
_________________ Andrew
TOC Moderator
Mark Twain wrote: A man's character may be learned from the adjectives which he habitually uses in conversation.
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