Put a K&N filter on my car, then I came across this thing they offer as an accessory for it.

The "X-stream"
Apparently it allows you to lose you're airbox lid, allowing more air/+mpg/+power/etc.


The real kick in the balls is, It cost upwards of $60.


Is there anything to this add-on filter does for ones performance, sound, or anything for that matter.

Negligible gains, if anything at all. It is probably a bit louder, and it looks cool, if that's your thing. It's more of a marketing gimmick than anything else.

I'd pass if it were me.

Thing is with carb mounted air filters without a hood scoop will do nothing but
ingest hot air anyway, not worth it, id incest in a carb hat and utilize a 31/2inch-4inch tube running to a open cone filter

http://www.oldsconnection.com/forum/vie ... php?p=7347

The K&N design, allows more airflow, by filtering it less.


Because, in theory, more air is available, it doesn't mean an engine can/will use it. Yours already has more filter than it can use.

Norm

Tell us how much TQ/HP, ET/MPH, and MPG gain I can expect, when I add a scoop to any/all of my cars?


If I did that, I would be ridiculed by a lot of very knowledgeable gearheads. Here is a link to a thread that explains why.

Sorry if it is a little hard to follow, but it is another of those threads that was trashed by our resident BS artist.

Norm

The K&N has a 98% filtration rate not to mention the added airflow.
Never have i heard of or saw, a car that gained nothing from a better air induction setup, rather it be throttle response, more HP, better mileage whatever, i dont see how come to that conclusion, that his car has more "filter than it can use" unless youre reffering to the K&N he already has.

Reffering to your other post, unless youre running dryer duct to your carb then what other than hot air will the filter pull in? thus the comment of a hood scoop.

this article begs to differ. I bookmarked this last year-




Unless it's made out of "flex-duct", right?



Why would he be referring to anything else?



Let's look at what you actually said.



Ok, here is a carb hat.



Using your logic, this is a bad idea, because it is made out of aluminum, and it will "heatsoak" badly.



WTF does this mean? I read it like this; Unless you're using dryer duct to your carburetor, then what, other than hot air, will the filter pull in? This would directly contradict the statement you made during your grand entrance to TOC. You can't have it both ways.



Can't have it both ways. A hood scoop won't do it it any good if it's got a carb hat on it, and a carb hat won't do any good if he's got a hood scoop. You can't run a cone filter to a hood scoop, it just doesn't work that way.

Here is an OAI setup to illustrate what I mean

Carb pan-

And the scoops

Only 98?

Try to keep up with the rest of us.


I have.

“Ricer type” put an oversize (read better) throttle body on an LN3. Couldn't get it to go over 3000 RPM. Threw a bunch of parts at it, trying to make it run as good as a stocker. Finally, on the advice of someone with some actual experience, he went back to the original TB. Says he will use it again, when he installs his turbocharger, and it will be “all better”.


Yes. That is the way it was designed.


The one we were discussing before you hijacked this thread? No.


No one said anything about dryer duct.

Try to keep up with the rest of us.


How does that answer my question?

Here it is, again:


If you cannot answer a simple question regarding your own statement, just say so.

Norm

The article dosent speak for the arguement you make, The link in it is bad now so whatever info you found is no more, IMO i'd trust the K&N site and the independent labs that tested them more...




I think you took that one way out of context and misunderstood what i said read below




Let's look at what you actually said.



Ok, here is a carb hat.



Using your logic, this is a bad idea, because it is made out of aluminum, and it will "heatsoak" badly.



WTF does this mean? I read it like this; Unless you're using dryer duct to your carburetor, then what, other than hot air, will the filter pull in? This would directly contradict the statement you made during your grand entrance to TOC. You can't have it both ways.


Can't have it both ways. A hood scoop won't do it it any good if it's got a carb hat on it, and a carb hat won't do any good if he's got a hood scoop. You can't run a cone filter to a hood scoop, it just doesn't work that way.

[/quote]

Uh..........way left field, first of all the dryer duct comment was a refrence to what norm does with his old school ram air, thats why i said carb mounted filter and dryer duct.

And no i havent contradicted anything Aluminum gets hotter than a composite material would, I stand by that statement, you took that and ran with it in you own version. I never said mixing the two, either a carb hat- with a tube to a conical filter behind the headlight or a carb mount, airfilter with a way to draw in fresh air from the hood or cowl area.is this clear enough?

It doesn't?



and



definately add to my point. The link in the story is an ISO 5001 test of filters. ISO is the world's largest developer of standards. It is a non-governmental organization composed of a network of the national standards institutes from 157 countries. The Central Secretariat is based in Geneva, Switzerland.

I'd certainly trust their results over K&N and the independent lab they hired to test the filter. K&N's primary interest is to sell air filters, and I would certainly put money on them paying the lab to produce results that fit their agenda, and I would also bet that their website is written to sell filters.

Sadly there isn't much truth to the phrase "You can get a good look at a T-Bone by sticking your head up a bull's ass, but wouldn't you rather take the butcher's word for it?" You can't believe everything you hear. There are a million and one ways to manipulate data and statisitics, and you can bet that any company selling something is manipulating it in their favor.





You stated that you have never seen an engine that didn't benefit from a better induction system. Previously, when we were discussing cold air intakes, you told us that a cold air intake made with flex duct was bad because it added "turbulence" and would "heat soak" which would actually harm the engine.

A cold air kit made from "flex-duct" would be considered "better" because it is relocating the air intake to an area with cool air. But, using the logic you previously provided, the engine would not benefit.

Do you see the contradiction now?




So that statement was just a flame to Norm, or were you trying to say something? Your posts are incredibly hard to decipher.



I didn't take it anywhere. I explained how I thought it read, and explained that thought in my post so you could clarify the comment. Refusal to answer the question leads one to believe you are either lying, or have no clue as to what you are talking about.



Yes, it is clearer.

How old are you all? God Damn.


So will this purchasing this additional filter AND removing the air box lid, increase power/accel/mpg/etc. at all?

According to this article



they state right on that page that



I will be purchasing the filter & removing my air box if thats the case.

Don't waste your money on it. The idea is that filter will replace the air box lid, but you already have a free flowing enough filter that you won't see any additional increase. The carburetor will only take so much air, and once that limit is reached, any additional steps taken to let it "breathe more" are moot.

The exception is "ram air" where a hood scoop or open cold air intake of some sort pushes the air up to, and through the carburetor, theoretically making it take more air. A few examples of this would be Oldsmobile's OAI, Pontiac's "Ram Air", and Chevrolet's "Cowl Induction", and the "Shaker" used by Dodge, Ford, Pontiac and Plymouth.

The second exception is forced air induction, via a Turbo, Super, or Pro Charger.



I am assuming you have the OEM style "snorkel" air cleaner?

Again, the idea is that that top filter is supposed to replace the air cleaner lid. You might get "more flow" by running that K&N in an open element style air cleaner, (IE, just a plate the goes on the carb, and a lid, leaving the air cleaner exposed with no surround or snorkel) but part of the benefit of the snorkel-style air cleaner is that it draws air in an area where there is less heat.

I think in your current application, you have probably reached the maximum efficiency of your induction setup, assuming that everything is put together right.

I hope that makes sense, if you need any clarification just ask.

Oh, I also believe most of the "Jeeps" they are referring to in that article are fuel injected, and have a small filter box that has a tube that runs to the throttle body, which is much more restrictive that the carburetor style "snorkel" air cleaner.

Uhhhhh, yes it does.


Uhhhhh, no, it is not.


Typical diversionary tactic, as used by any common BS artist. Here it is again:

http://www.offroadpakistan.com/blog/tec ... ork_1.html


Although forums and Blogs are usually the least reliable of sources, my experience with K&N filters, has been no different.

On the plus side, they are reusable, but more importantly, they look impressive when the hood is up, .

But wait!!!!

I'm not qualified to express an opinion because, as 91buickman has clearly shown, I do not have any actual experience with the subject.


http://www.knfilters.com/faq.htm#24


More filtration = Less flow.
Less filtration = More flow.

Try to keep up with the rest of us.


Uhhhhh .......... dead on.


At the risk of repeating myself:

No one said anything about dryer duct.


Do you have a clue, what Norm does?

If you would simply read what is there, you would not look/sound like a BS artist.

From the link I posted (and you did not read) previously:

http://www.oldsconnection.com/forum/vie ... 1211#21211


Note: I used the correct terminology.

The use of the term "dryer duct" is:

1. Not accurate.

2. Used by BS artists, to demean a concept that they do not understand.

Try to keep up with the rest of us.


From:

http://www.oldsconnection.com/forum/vie ... 1158#21158




A combination you, obviously, know nothing about.


Which proves what?


Which proves what?


OK. The choice is between a carb hat or a scoop.

Drawing on your many decades of "hands on" experience, how much gain, in MPG, TQ/HP, and ET/MPH, could I expect, using one or the other?

Norm

Norm

End hijack, resume topic:


The correct terms are air cleaner or air filter assembly. The lid is also called a top, or cover.

Read posts #2 and #4 again.


You can prove it for yourself by removing the entire air cleaner assembly, and going for a test drive.

It's your money, your car, and your choice.


Not the case. You do not have a filter box.

Norm