Does the word "diversion" sound familiar to anyone?

For the record, both engines were machined to my specs. I chose the oil and the schedule according to the the way both cars were to be used. If the use changes, so will the oil and/or schedule.


Do you think your "one size fits all" 3000 mile statements should stand, without question or discussion? That no one should post a different opinion? Even one who might have a wee bit more experience than yourself?

Do you think my statements are to be dismissed, without question or discussion?


This is the second time you've used this. I'm assuming it has a different meaning in your neighborhood, than in mine.

For anyone who might have noticed: Yes, I ignored his use of caps and bold fonts.

I'm done.

Hi all,

No mechanic will try to talk you out of an oil change. They are in business to service cars, not talk you out of it.

As for Norm's coupes...

Ill let him have the final word, but considering they are 'hopped up' I think his choice of oil change interval works just fine. Older cars will have shorter reccomended service schedules because, as Norm stated, oils have come a long way since his coupes were new.

No one said you were an expert and no one attacked you for stating your opinion. Dont get so wound up, its just a civil debate on oil changes, not something to get riled up over. You are going to get debate both ways, no matter what your opinion is.

Andrew

EDIT- Norm, you gotta quit posting while I am composing!!

Hi Andrewk, all,

Looks like I'm not done.

Just noticed, I missed one. Can't leave everyone hanging.


Actually he's 60 plus and knows little, other than how to drive it. The reason he does it that way, is because "thats the way I've always done it, and that's because it's the way my father did it".

For anyone who is interested, this link was posted over on ROP a while back. Can't vouch for it's accuracy, other than to say that, from what I've seen so far, it agrees with me.

Re: My failure to understand why a Syn would leak in an application where a Dino of the same API/SAE did not. Statement there reminded me I already had the answer, just didn't recognize it. I'll cover it in my next post(s).


And the misinformation surrounding the improvements has grown accordingly. Mostly because the erroneous statements go unchallenged. There are several examples in the previous page, as well as the linked threads.


I, for one, do not consider anyone an expert, until he/she shows the appropriate credentials.

It just occured to me: I wonder if "Olds1897to2004" checked the credentials of his sources, as closely as he's checked mine?

Expert or not, I still don't understand why one would post a statement on a "discussion" board, with no intention of "discussing" it.


Andrew, you could quit composing while I'm posting.

Regards, Norm

Definition of Peace Out:
Short, slang term for "Peace to all, I'm Out of here!"

I don't know any other way this could or should be interpreted, but that's what it has meant everywhere I've traveled along the East Coast.



Since I did not use any bold fonts in any of my prior posts, I guess that part wasn't too hard to ignore. I'm not surprised you ignored my use of all caps, you obviously didn't read the words when they were written in standard print either. Why would all caps be any different?



Absolutely not. You don't read very well, do you? I tried using bigger letters in hopes you might be able to read the text better, but that didn't help. So, I'll just quote myself here:



You directly assailed my perspective in a manner that gave me the impression you were ridiculing me, and I perceived it in the tone of superciliousness on your part. If this was honestly not your intent, then I truly apologize for taking offense. However, based on the manner in which you wrote your post(s), I don't see any other way this could have been intended or interpreted.



If that is not a perfect example of superiority (or ignorance), I don't know what is.

I don't know you, I don't know what you do, how old you are, what you eat for breakfast, or how much you know about cars. The same holds true for you in regards to me.



Again, absolutely not. You are fully entitled to your opinions, thoughts, ideas, and experiences - and you are absolutely free to voice them. This is America, after all. Of course, just as you have those rights, so do I.
You are also free to scrutinize and mark my comments with derision, if that is your fancy, but do not be taken aback if I respond likewise.

Peace Out!
(Peace to All, I'm Out of Here!)

PS:
Andrew,
I read your post in full, and if 88 Coupe honestly did not (or does not) intend on portraying himself in the manner that I have perceived, then I apologize. However, I've been unable to fathom any other acumen he may have been attempting to deliberate. Furthermore, your posts have both agreed and disagreed with my opinions, but all were done in a civil manner. For that, thank you. Lastly, I am not distressed nor fractious with reference to anything alleged within this topic. However, if someone desires to have a debate with me via any particular approach, they should expect to receive a response via the same method.

Hi all,

It appears I'm not done yet.


My neighborhood is on the other coast, and the meaning here is very different. Saying it to the wrong person can get one shot.


I thought you started using them in your first post. My mistake.


I read, understood, and noted it, the first time. Having already read your first post (yes, I can read) I already knew you are nowhere near an expert in the field.

If you wish to discuss it further, please post any quotes you take exception to.


My assaults are in your imagination.

As far as your example goes, it might be either or both. There is also the very real possibility that its true.


A search on 88 Coupe will tell you anything you need to know about me, including my reputation as a Diplomat.

Your posts have been telling me far more about you than I want to know.


Now that I know where you are coming from, I'll get back to the topic, and you can continue your flames without me.

Regards, Norm

Hi all,

As I said above, I wasn't comfortable dealing with these until yesterday when I got a Memory jogger from here.

OK. From the top.


It is a superior lubricant, and it can last many times longer under equal conditions. I'm not prepared to discuss the economics involved.


There should not be a problem changing to syn, as long as the brand is not changed. Only difference in going from Dino to Syn at 100K or 200K would be any difference in wear that might have occured with the dino prior to the change.


After a rebuild, many say to use dino until the engine is fully broken in. I question the logic, as new cars delivered with syn are not. Maybe it's that mfrs conspiracy that was alluded to.


Your choice.


Your choice. I think 50/50 is a joke.


If the SAE numbers are the same, the viscocity will be the same.


Breaking down? When I see a definition/explanation of the term as it's used here, I'll be able to deal with the temp issue.


By definition, if the viscosity is the same, they will flow the same at all temps.


Thinner form = Viscosity?

A thicker dino is usually recommended for those engines, because of the wider clearances. Why couldn't the same SAE grade in syn be used?


The mere possibility of a leak, is what created the urban legend you bought into.


Any numbers? Or were you enjoying the "placebo" effect?


With the same SAE numbers?


I'm impressed. Any histories on the cars?


What information can you give us, that might show the advantages of your choice of oil, change intervals, and warmup procedures.

Regards, Norm

Hi all,


Are you refering to multi-viscosity oils? 10W-30 will flow like 10wt. oil when cold, and like 30 when hot. A synthetic multi-viscosity will do the same thing. If you are comparing SAE 30 oil to 0W-30 synthetic, then of course the synthetic will flow better at lower temps. In an Apples to Apples comparison say a dino and a syn 10W-30, you will find that they will perform very similarly. The main difference, from what I have read, is that with the synthetic base, the additive package will bond better to the oil, making it perform more reliably. Anyway, just thought I would add this. All of this of course, is from my own research, heresay and opinion. Feel free to correct me.

Andrew

Hi andrewk, all,


If I'm comparing them to multi-vis oils, yes.


10W 30 and 30wt are different SAE numbers.


The molecular structure of syn allows those additives to be used, complimenting the syns naturally (pun intended) superior lubricating properties.


And, it appears, you have the knowlege/experience/common sense, to separate the "wheat from the chafe", and the intelligence to question my unclear statements.


I wouldn't want to risk damaging yourself esteem.

I was informed this afternoon, there is some rain in "Sunny California". It's east of here, so it must be headed your way.

Regards, Norm

haha good to see you still holdin it down here on TOC, norm.

Brian

Hi Brianritchie21787, all,

Stick around, there's more to come.

Regards, Norm

Hi All,


Here's another, from the fourth post in this thread.


So, we have positive results from two people with actual experience. Only possible explanation is, they both got lucky?

Now, here's a quote from one whose opinion I respect. The twelfth post on the second page of the same thread.


They always used the same brand (I assume their "house brand") when they changed from dino. Seems to show the syn causes the problem. But, does it?

To be continued.

Norm

Hi all,

As far as I know, except for lubricating qualities, there is little difference between the two base oils.

That leaves another subject I know little about: The many additives that give the different oils their unique qualities.

In order to meet those government specs that were ridiculed earlier, the refiners add chemical modifiers. Each uses different combinations of chemicals to meet those requirements. Some brands can be as much as 25% additives. Different chemical compounds in different brands, have been known to show negative reactions when those brands are mixed.

As I see it, only two of them apply to this topic: Those that control viscosity and those that soften seals.

Viscosity: SAE 5w50 is SAE 5w, with additives that keep the consistency the same as SAE 50w would have been at normal operating temp. When those additives break down, it will react to heat as if it was SAE 5w. Good reason to keep the two numbers as close as possible, when one is choosing a Multi.

Seal softeners: Pretty much, self explanatory. Seals get hard and brittle with age and heat cycling. That’s what makes them leak. All modern API spec motor oils have some sort of “seal softener” included.

To be continued.

Norm