True. And a lot of that 6k was spent on those edelbrock aluminum heads. But got some good news, found 2 local builders that specialize in Olds, and THAT's what I've been searching for. I sent em both an email about a 350 and 4k and what they can do with it. You guys might know em both, Greg Godon and John Stolpa.

EDIT: well, I just got off the phone with Greg, was short and sweet. Why? pretty much $4,000 isn't enough. For a basic rebuilt with 350 horses and torque I'm looking at $6,000. And thats just the rebuilt, no intake or headers.

I wonder what John has to say, but I'm guessing it'll be about the same?

EDIT 2: Just got an email from John, and his reply was, quote: "sure, we can build you a great motor for around that. "


Now I'm confused.

So, instead of questioning/discussing my comments, was it assumed they were negative, and we should automatically move on to another?


What led you to believe that?


Same as the other examples. Much can be learned from a discussion of the specs.


Not surprising.


Since all Edelbrock heads are made from aluminum, the term is (sort of like, 455 big block) redundant. It's why they are normally referred to, as Edelbrock heads. Many times it can be helpful if one, at least, sounds like he/she knows some of the basics.


It's also what you have not asked about.


And.


Not surprising.


Again, not surprising.

Norm

Why not ask each builder what they would do with the motor, and compare builds, much like you've done on ROP? It'll tell you how each builder was trying to get the same desired HP rating out of the same piece of metal. The shops should be able to tell you what they'd use long before they got started building it.

Less than half of your original MPG, and a shorter lifespan. Little worry with a low mileage "toy", but a genuine PIA with a daily driver/commuter.

Everything in the drivetrain has to be watched for excessive wear and signs of wear, weakness, or breakage.

More power = more vigilance.


Scheduled intervals will get closer, as the power levels go up.

If you have driven it on the highway, you already understand 3700 RPM+ @ 70 MPH, so you are ahead of most others at your knowledge/experience level.


Overall Diameter = 25.9”

With a 4.11:1 rear you will see:
3700+ RPM @ 70 MPH
5400+ RPM @ 100MPH.

How much + equals, depends on the amount of converter slippage. High stall converters will slip more.

Norm

What's wrong with a twenty under crank?


Definitely an appearance item.


No doubt. The original points ignition should handle it.


No one has ever claimed significant gains at this level. I would not use them, unless the price was right.


They come in different thicknesses, fit the exact bore sizes, and are reusable. All 3 are useful for a race engine.

Are they worth 5x the price for this application?

Norm

Nothing at all, but it limits how many more times he can use that crank, and if he can get a crank that is within spec, no matter if its undercut or not, it will save him some money in machining cost.

Filling aside, the limit is set by available bearings and the extent of the damage that needs to be repaired, not by the diameter of the previous grind.

Thirty is common and, forty is not unusual. FWIW, rods on my 437 are .060", mains are .010.


I'm missing something. Shops charged X amount for a 10/10 crank kit. IIRC, bigger numbers (20/20, 30/30), and combinations (10/20, 30/20, 10/40 etc) kits would cost incrementally less, because they were less desireable.

Norm

Looks good. I have the impression, that was his intent.

ARP main studs = not needed at this level.

Nodular crank = stock crank.

Mains .0030, rods .0025, rods side clearance .016 = A bit loose for a driver, fine for a "toy". Personal preference rules in this area.

Oil restrictors = not needed.

ARP rod bolts = Not needed except for insurance.

Ultradyne solid cam (238/238 duration, 544/544 lift - lash at .016")= Camshafts are always a personal choice.

Comp Cams springs 135 seat/325 open = As long as it's US made, use whatever matches the cam profile.

Zero decked and the heads milled to achieve the desired CR = Sounds familiar.

Speed pro forged pistons with 6cc dish (side clearance .006") = The dish tends to resist detonation, but if decking/milling is needed to achieve the desired CR, and a better compression height was not available, I would go to a flat top piston.

ProRace SFI harmonic balancer. = How much less would the ProStreet damper cost?

Kooks 1-7/8 headers = Kooks? On this budget?

Edelbrock heads = On a 350 at this level?

Four angle valve job with a radius cut on exhaust= Standard three angle will do the job.

Harland Sharp roller rockers. = Not needed at this level.

Port matched Performer RPM intake = A used one would not be as pretty, but it would do the same job.

750 Quadrajet modified by the Jim McGowan at the Quadshop = If you can't do it yourself, someone has to. If I couldn't do it myself and was in your area, I think I might have Smitty at http://www.mjproformance.com/ do it.

Norm

I agree with that, however, if he has a crank that is at, or near its machinable limit to begin with, isnt he only asking for trouble down the road?



Not sure I follow there. I would think 10/10 kits would be cheaper, because they are plentiful, and the odd ball combos more expensive since they are not as popular, and there are probably less of them out there. I could be wrong, but thats my logic.

What I meant by that statement was that regardless of previous crank diameter, if he can find a good crank that requires no machining, he will save some money. Whether or not machining cost in his area offsets the price of a good crank is not known though. But given the number of Iron Olds cranks out there, I would say its a safe bet.

Andrew

If he cannot predict its condition at the time of the next rebuild, how could it matter?


Like most commodities, the popular one will be priced according to what the traffic will bear. The less popular, are priced lower in order to sell them.


Good point. What are the odds of his finding such a crank at the time he needs it?

If he has more time than money, it could be well worth the search. But then, if he did, how would he verify its condition?


Wouldn't it depend on the condition of that "good" crank vs the condition of his "existing" core?

Norm

Hmmm...



Less quantity demanded = higher price level
More quantity demanded = lower price level

If they produce a surplus (left over parts) amount of product, then they would lower the price until they meet the equilibrium point. If there's a shortage (selling parts like hotcakes) then they will raise prices to meet the equilibrium point.

In comparing Olds parts to Chevy parts, Chevy prices are lower because they have a much higher quantity demanded...plus there's a whole lot more competition out there leading to competitive pricing.

Now if an Olds parts dealer wasn't selling anything at all or has product that is moving very slowly, that would be a surplus, in which they would/should gradually lower the prices until stuff started selling. It's all about what buyers are willing to spend.

Don't know if any of that made sense...


TOC Admin
Brando

Makes sense to me... just got done with that class!

ohh god... Microeconomics... Actually kinda cool.

It made perfect sense, if the pricing is based on manufacturing costs.


Not taking raw material costs into consideration.

Less quantity = lower production runs = higher cost per unit.
More quantity = higher production runs = lower cost per unit.


Which makes a bigger pie for mfrs to share, then comes more mfrs to share that pie. Lower costs and competition between them lowers prices down the line to the retailer, then to the consumer.

In our case, we have two perfectly good parts for the same application, that are the same quality and cost the same to produce. Because the "20" is perceived by some as inferior to the "10", sales will lag behind production unless the price is lowered.

When that happens, there are many who choose to save a few bucks.

Norm

Why do most of my threads end up going somewhere completely different from the original post?