Hello Everyone,

My check ABS light is on. Is there a procedure/steps that I can go through to narrow down the problem? I have an ODB1 reader for ABS but unfortunately my model ABS is one of the ones not covered. ABS is one of those things I know very little about how to troubleshoot.

Here is the background and what I have done sofar.
1) Bought car a month ago. Its a 93 Olds 88 royale ls with 3800 engine.
2) The rear brake lines had popped so replaced them all (Front and back while I was there).
3) While replacing lines also replaced pads, rotors in front and cleaned calipers. Also replaced rear drums/pads/drum springs (kit).
4) checked the ABS wires and connectors for wear and tear and made sure they were connected properly. They were all fine. Did nothing with the ABS unit as it does not appear to have any maintenance items on it other than the input and outputs.
5) Bled the brakes (using a helper).
6) Brakes worked but were very soft. Pumping 3 times each time to stop gave me strong brakes - so suspect the bleeding and lines were fine but possible brake booster problem. No check ABS light.
7) Checked underhood and found that 2 of the vaccum lines coming off the same T as the brake booster line were degraded at the rubber parts to the point of leaking a lot.
8) fixed that and now had really strong brakes with no check ABS light - things were looking good.
9) Took it for a 1/2 hour test drive (30 miles) with frequent stops and about halfway through the check ABS light came on. I also noted that the brakes were a bit softer but still stopped the car smartly although not as agressively as before. (ABS unit going into safe mode?)
10) I should mention that I was testing out the parking brake during this ride and stepping on the gas a tiny bit in both reverse and forward to make sure it was holding properly. I dragged the right rear wheel on gravel for about a foot before realizing it was locked up. The other tires never totally locked up (which to me means nothing more than finetune adjustment needed to the brakes). Not sure if this matters but I recall that the ABS light came on soon thereafter so maybe they are related?? If 3 wheels move and one does not does ABS get upset? Would an ECM reset not fix that? Anyway, continuing...
10) Took all wheels off and checked the sensors to make sure they were all still connected at the wheels and not torn/wrecked/disconnected. Checked brake fluid and it looks at the same level as started (Full).
11) No leaks under the car when parked on cardboard over 5 hours of time after being driven.
12) reset the computer by unplugging battery for 1 minute but ABS check light still comes back on.
13) no ECM codes (check engine light is off).
14) Checked ABS controller in front and, well, its there. (not sure what to check on that block of steel).

So, any thoughts on next steps? Maybe I should just go and get an ABS code reader... Is there a way to bleed an ABS unit? Do you even need to?

Thank You for any assistance in advance.

Gary

IMO: I would approach the idea of taking it to the dealer or a highly qualified technician who specializes in the ABS system...It can be pretty complicated, the ABS is a precision instrument which keeps the vehicle under control while braking...Brakes would still work without it, just not how they were designed!

Hi Erroneous Restrictionism!,

Yes I agree. I was never planning on fixing it myself but I always like to try to diagnose and narrow down a problem before taking it in to a professional so I know that I am not being taken for a ride.

As sad as it is to say, I have had a number of experiences with shops trying to sell me parts not at all related to the problem. If I now come across a shop that tries to pull one over on me I make sure everyone knows about it and their business subsequently suffers because of their lack of ethics.

OK. You were going to take it to a shop all the time.


But, you want to know how to do it yourself. Were you interested in buying a "code reader" because you fear that shop would not have one?


And you assume you will get an accurate diagnosis from the internet? Do you think anyone can do so, using only the information you are able to provide?

You listed 14 items that you have already done. Are we to assume none of the parts you used were DOA? Are we to also assume everything in that list was done correctly?


Any examples would appreciated since discussing the actual instances, would be far more productive than "badmouthing" a competent/honest shop.


Do you know, for a fact, that is what they are doing? If so, how do you know?

Are they, in fact, simply making recommendations, in order to save you future inconveniences? Did you discuss those recommendations, in depth, at the time?


Lack of ethics? By whose standards?

Norm

good ol asshole Norm, No answer but still has lots to say.

Read it again.

Unlike your childish flame, it has some actual information that many of the TOC members can learn from. The ones that are mature enough to read what is actually there, anyway.

EDIT: Used "edit" instead of "quote" button. Took two more edits to get it back to it's original state.

Hi Norm,

Thank You for your feedback and opinion, all help is greatly appreciated.

First, let me clarify that I am not a mechanic but I am trying to learn. Sometimes I do make mistakes and wrong steps but that is all part of the learning process. I do appreciate it when someone tells me that something is better left to the professionals and I then do that - but I still want to understand the why's of the issue or failure.

In the spirit of this discussion let me answer some of your questions/comments:



I would like to have an idea of what the problem is before I take it in. I know the shop has a Code reader.



No, I am not asking for a diagnosis but steps/suggestions on how to tackle this issue I have.



One example. I had a braking problem where the car would pull to the left hard when braking. I took it to a shop and they diagnosed the problem to be the Pads, rotors and ABS unit. Since it was too much money to fix it I parked the car until I could save up. During that time I got a second opinion and they replaced only the pads and turned the rotors - problem fixed. They stated that the ABS unit had nothing to do with this issue.



As In the previous case, getting a second opinion has often shown me that. In more current times, discussion over the internet and with mechanic friends has provided me with information making me question some of the recommendations.
I will always ask for explanations and listen to the reasoning and why. If it is reasonable then I proceed.

Again, what I mention above is not the norm but the exception - more often than not I have dealt with knowledgeable/professional shops. My personal preference is to have as much info about the issue before I go in - both as a personal interest item and to ensure proper customer service.



By my standards but, you are correct, that is not necessarily someone else's standards.

One final example.

I took my vehicle for a safety inspection last week - mainly to find out what still needed to be done. They listed a number of items - some expected, some not. There were 2 listed that I questioned - 1 was a hole in the metal besides the evap canister. Usually that is not a safety requirement (as per the Ministry of transporation safety requirements list). I did not even get a chance to ask my second question (One of the corner lights was not working - the ones that go on solid when turning - they were not on the safety list as required either) as the mechanic got rather upset and kept asking why I was questioning his report and to take it as it is or go somewhere else.

I have always believed in "Forearmed is forewarned'.

Norm, In your reply I sensed an unhappiness about the way I approached this topic - do you have any suggestions on how I should have posted it?

I get the impression that 'stick to the facts' and not to include personal comments, thoughts or experiences is your preffered discussion method?

Thank You
Gary

FSM as shown here is the best place to start.

Norm

Did anyone say you were?

OK. Not a mechanic, but you do have sufficient knowledge to make an informed decision regarding how/when the following statement should apply to a repair shop.


Who cares if an honest/competent business gets hurt by someones bogus accusations?


Nothing wrong with that. It is the same reason I ask questions.


In the spirit? Interesting choice of words.


Hard to disagree with that logic.


You could have the shop diagnose it. Then we could critique their findings, and you would have your answers.

Or you could use the information to repair it yourself.


Are you confusing "diagnosis" with "recommendations"?

Did you discuss it with them? Of course you did, because you are "trying to learn". What was the rationale behind their conclusion?


And, what is the subject of this thread?

Was your decision to believe the second shop influenced, in any way, by the difference in cost?


I’m happy that you have that much confidence in the internet. And in your "mechanic" friends.

Are you here because you distrust your “mechanic” friends?


How do you determine what is "reasonable"?


And by excluding that fact from your second post, you helped perpetuate the myths surrounding Dealers and repair shops.

Hopefully all future visitors will read past your negative statements and get as far as your "disclaimer".


How do you insure the accuracy of that information?


Not necessarily? Another interesting choice of words.


Does not sound like something that belongs there. Describe it, and tell us why it should not have been noted.
.

And it was/is not his job to note it, as such?


Were you questioning his report, or his competence, or both?


Forearmed? Wouldn’t, “informed” be a less aggressive way of looking at it?


You sensed? Did you read something I did not write?


Should I?


You get the impression?

If you have any questions or comments about my posting style, they belong here:

http://www.oldsconnection.com/forum/vie ... php?t=2230

That is why I started the thread.

Norm

Wow, just because your good at being and asshole doesn't mean you have to be an asshole to someone simply looking for some pointers. You may have some grudge, or you feel you are simply getting to the bottom of things, but come on, is this really necessary? All the poor guy wants is some help, not someone picking apart everything he says. This stuff is very unnecessary in my opinion. But you don't care what my opinion is, you just care that you get your opinion out to the world so you can irritate them at your enjoyment. Who cares if he doesn't want to pay for something he doesn't need, he's not the only one. FYI, the ABS unit did not need to be replaced, it had nothing to do with the problem(allthough, at this point it just might). Those things do run for a pretty penny though, so it probably is best that you got a second opinion. Unless the hub was out of balance, which is rare, unless you bump a curb or the like. Warped rotors are common, although it sounded like it was more a caliper seized or was not working properly causing only a caliper on one side to work, hence the pull to one side. If the pull was inconsistent then It could be warped rotors, or the pads were just sticking, which Is exactly what it seemed to be since the problem is gone now. And doing the upselling that your previous mechanic did is not unusual. We all like to pocket a little extra cash, and make the garage some money too. It makes our bosses happy, and if your boss is happy, so are you. I know these things, I work with mechanics, and I am soon to be one myself. Although this occasion was more dishonest then just trying to sell a customer something for preventative maintenance. There are plenty of dishonest mechanics out there, even completely stupid ones that barley get by in the trade, but there are a lot of really good mechanics out there too. You just have to find one, and guess what, you'll keep coming back because people don't like getting ripped off. This is the reality of the trade, and if 88 Coupe doesn't want to accept it, than fair enough, thanks for your opinion.

Now to the real matter here:

The ABS sensors in your car seems to usually have problems with them. My mother has the newer version of your car (which will soon be mine), and had to keep putting new sensors in more than you normally should. After a while, she just gave up, turned off the traction control(which was acting VERY erratically because of it) and drove it for a while. Now the ABS light is on, and every once in a while when you first start it up and use the brakes in the morning, the ABS module kicks in randomly, puts on full brakes on the front, and then shuts off and sets a code. It is only when you are crawling along and tap the brakes a little too hard. If you don't want to pay a mechanic lots of money to diagnose the problem(which you probably don't) just to get your ABS working again, go ahead. I could find the problem exactly, but I'd need to see the car in person, and have a couple tools handy(including a scanner, to at least see what the computer is protesting at) But I'd go with living without ABS and just learn how to use your brakes in bad situations without the help of a computer. In my old car I had a switch to disable the ABS system because I prefer to have more driver control over my vehicle. Stats may show that ABS saves lives, but in my own experience, I feel it will interfere with saving my own life when something bad happens. Flame me all you want for that, I really don't care.

And 88 Coupe, I look forward to the many arguments that you will cause and/or have caused because of your poor attitude towards other people. I also look forward to defending those poor people who's life you have belittled for no real good reason. I hope to talk to you again soon.

And here is your personal invitation.

http://www.oldsconnection.com/forum/vie ... php?t=2230

Norm

Here Here!...I agree!

Hmm!..That's your defence?

Is there any other answer you know how to give other than this?

WOW!! How intelligent!....Aren't you a "Moderator"?