Ok my car i have is an Olds Delta 88 from 1989. It used to be my parents' car a few years back and then i got it. I drove it fine just as a get around car for about a year with all regular maintenance. Then towards the end of that year it struck a huge tranny leak, and started smoking out the tailpipe like there was no tomorrow...... oddly enough only at initial start up.... it usually would go away after about 30-45 seconds. So i went ahead and got a new tranny pan gasket and that solved the trans leak but it still smoked like crazy.... no real distinct color just a kind of greyish cloudy smoke. not quite blue not quite white, and not quite black. just grey. That never really caused any real issues at all except for the nasty looks from the neighbors. And it ran just the same. Then one day when i was driving home i felt total power losses and it "bogged out horribly" And i couldn't even keep it alive with giving it gas. When i gave it gas it did nothing at all. Then it took quite a bit of time to get started back up. It would crank and crank and crank like there was no tomorrow but i'd get nothing. Then finally it started up and i drove it home, and put it in the garage for a few months because the next day i had already arranged to get another car since the delta seemed on it's last strings. So a few months pass and i figure i'll get the car running again and try and figure out what was the problem..... So i put a new battery in it and some fresh gas and it starts right up but with massive gas leaks from the line that feeds it gas. So i patched those up using the old hose and clamps method. Then gave it the usual tune up. And the car seemed to drive like a champ except with a bit higher idle. and at first no smoke then after i drove it around the block and turned it off and started it back up smoke...... But no bogging of any kind for 3 weeks up until tonight..... i was about 30 minutes from home on my way back with my girlfriend and guess what bogs like crazy at a stop light and dies....... won't start up just crank crank crank every now and then it'd start but die when i put it in gear..... or just die before i got a chance to put it in gear. So she steers i push and i get it to a parking lot so i don't get harassed by cops. Then voila it starts the first try once it's in the parking lot. Then i drive it about 2 blocks and it dies on me in an intersection and i nearly hit a curb. So once again crank crank no start.... and the usual start and die when it's put in gear. So i push the damn thing about 2 blocks and get it to a good safe lot again. Then it starts right up but won't stay on anymore than about 30-45 seconds then it would bog out and giving it gas would do nothing at all to stop it. So from there i called a buddy and got a tow and now it's sitting in the drive way with a dead battery from being towed with the lights on and hazards on for about an hour. Does anyone have any idea where i should be looking first or where to start looking...... it seems to be a gas issue of some sort i imagine.
Well sorry for the long post and thanks a million to all who respond. I really like the car and it's been in the family for a long time and we even drove it to mexico city and back when i was about 12. So i really don't want to have to give up on it. Plus it's only got about 100xxx miles on it.
thanks
-dave-

With all this smoking, have you noticed any of the fluid levels dropping off?

You should definately have a "check engine" or "service engine soon" light come on, if its running the way you indicated. Is this true?

If so, we need to know what code, or codes the computer is seeing. This will usually direct you to the area that needs attention. Sounds like a sensor to me...

Let us know if you have codes in your computer right now. You can learn how to check them here: How to Read ALDL Codes

To add a few things to the post above, if it was a head gasket the smoke would be white, if the rings or valve guides were shot, the smoke would be blue. Now both of these things going at the same time is VERY unlikely, but, it can happen. Allthough it would not explain the problem you are having, but just to be sure do a couple things. Check the oil level after it has sat, if a head gasket has gone, then it will show up as a milky white solution on top of the oil. If it is burning oil, you will notice the oil level drop over time. If it is a head gasket you will notice the coolant level drop over time, and if you have the radiator cap off with the engine running(do this ONLY with the engine cold or the coolant will boil and cause it to burst out everywhere causing a nasty mess) you will notice bubbles come up to the top of the coolant in the rad, meaning there is exhaust gases in the coolant from the combustion chamber that has the leaky head gasket. What it does sound like is that it may be a crankshaft position sensor. That will not cause all the smoke you are experiencing, but it will cause the intermittent start, and bogging because the computer goes into limp home mode after losing the crankshaft sensor and pulls timing like a bad comedian gets pulled off the stage. I do remember a problem with the series 1 3800 V6's experience a problem with the crankshaft that makes the toothed ring on the crankshaft from where the CPS gets it's information rattle back and forth from a damaged front engine output shaft key, causing the computer to get really confused and doesn't even know where to set the timing, fuel, etc. and the car eventually stalls after 30 or so seconds intermittently. Sometimes it doesn't start, sometimes it does. You can tell if this is the problem if you hear a metal on metal clacking back and forth when you try to start the engine, and while it is running. Hope this helps in your diagnosis. Although it could be just a bad ground somewhere causing the problem, as it usually is AFTER you get deep into it and replace oh, about 300 bucks worth of parts. . But, I'm pretty sure it can be what I have mentioned above.

An intake can also cause this senario, not just a head gasket.



Lots of things can cause oil to get into the combustion chamber besides rings and valve seals.



But that's not to say it has happened.



If the shoe doesnt fit, why try to put it on?



It will always be milky, no matter if it sat or not. In fact, it will be nice and frothy if there is anti freeze in the crankcase and it has been running.



Lots of things other than a head gasket can cause smoking, and can also cause loss of coolant. If the smoke is at start up, and only at startup, and it is in fact oil, he may not notice any oil consumption at all. All it takes is a couple drops to give a great big cloud of blue smoke.



I would consider this secondary evidence. If your water pump is cavitating the coolant, similar bubbles can appear.



It isnt a limp home mode, its the sensor getting warm enough to change the resistance enough to shut down. That engine wont fire without the crank sensor.



If it was the CPU getting confused, he wouldnt have gotten as far as he did. What is happening, or at least to me it sounds like, he is starting it, it runs, crank sensor gets warm, quits working, engine dies, engine cools, and then fires again. Been there, done that. If it was a ground issue, the CEL would trip and would likely fry the ground circut in the computer, killing the car altogether.

The bogging is probably simple. Where you patched those hoses, you are sucking air. At least this is the most likely thing I can think of. When you suck air, you lean out the fuel supply, and the engine cant compensate for it. But it could be one of many things- tough to tell...

Andrew

This car has an in tank pump... If there was something wrong with the patch job, wouldnt it just leak? Maybe a fuel system pressure test is in order?

Gee... thought of everything but in tank pump. It could still suck some air, but would most likely leak, or seep. A fuel pressure test would be a great start.

Andrew

Ok guys thanks for the replies. Heres the deal. I am getting absolutely no check engine light whatsoever during this whole ordeal i'm having. Which is what makes me the most angry since i can't check the codes and at least have a good place to start. My coolant level stays where it's been for the last year. So i'm fairly positive a head gasket is out of the question. Oil does go low after a while but what old cars oil doesn't? I'm not sure. How do i go about checking the crankshaft position sensor?
Thanks a lot for everyone responding.

Sorry for my uneducated post, I only am going on what little knowledge of this engine I do have. I have more experience with Ford drivetrains than I do GM's. Just going by personal experience and knowledge. You guys know a lot more than I do about these things in a lot more detail than me.

88delta88, andrewk: Good posts.


Haven't you just made my point about the flow of misinformation on the internet?


Are we to believe that, in the context of this thread, there is any difference between Ford and GM products?

The majority of the information posted by 88delta88 and andrewk is generic to any modern liquid cooled Otto Cycle engine, regardless of manufacturer.


Valuable tools after one has learned to use them.

Norm

That's why I go to a "Qualified Technician" if I have "Major" problems

ok well a bit of an update...... i got my battery all charged up and threw in a gallon of gas just for kicks. Now the car just cranks like there's no tomorrow but it sounds like it's possibly not getting gas??? I'm not sure but when i crank it i hear a kind of bubbling sound come from the tank that was never there before, and it just cranks over sounding normal as can be but won't fire up. What are some signs of a bad fuel pump? Like does it just go out completely or will it work when it wants to? The car seems to be getting spark, and battery is charged to the max.... Also how do i go about getting a fuel pressure test? is it something i actually have to go to a shop for or can i do it myself somehow? I really gotta get this car running again since my nissan 240sx is out of commission while i put a new motor in it, and i start school in a few days. Thanks to anyone who replies and has already replied.

Do you know that? Or are you just throwing it in, to confuse everyone?


Have you actually checked it? Or are you trying to confuse us even further?

It was suggested that you check the fluid level in the trans. What did you find?

Pull a couple of plugs and check their condition.

Norm

A quick way to know if the fuel pump is working or not is just to turn the ignition on to where all the warning lights are on, but not cranking the engine over. You should be able to hear a faint "humm" under-neath the car.

To see if theres fuel getting to the engine is there should be a cap on the fuel injector rail. Turn the car on (again to where the warning lights are on, but not trying to start the car) pop that cap off and take a small flathead screwdriver and press down on the needle assembly. If you're getting fuel a gush of fuel should come out. If there isn't then you aren't getting fuel, or not enough.

Like 87delta said i'm not hearing the "humm" from underneath the car with the key turned as i used to.... which lead me to believe fuel wasn't being delivered as it was supposed to.

I checked for spark the way i always to i pull a spark plug wire and hold it near while cranking with a friend and see if i see spark.... which i did see that's why i said i checked for spark and it's sparking. I'll check the plugs as you suggested. The fluid in the trans was also about a 3/4-1/2 quart low so i topped it off... do you have any other questions that would help a diagnosis? Thanks a lot to everyone who replies/has replied.

Thanks a lot 87 delta i'll be sure to try that suggestion, and let you know how it goes.
-dave