my 91 cutlass cierra has been experiencing some technical difficulties recently. i thought i had everything figured out, but apparently not. after changing the starter...twice...and the solenoid...three times...i thought i had it!!!
nope...not a chance
i come to realize that the neutral safety switch is gone...went through a couple of used ones, workin fine until one day it wouldnt start again with the key...no problem, ill just go buy a brand new switch...cool\
got my new switch, put it on...vrooooom...fired right up!
i was like a kid at xmas...lol
i went back inside to grab a rag, came out to my car and tried to turn it off, and guess what???
the F!#$!#@$ ignition was stuck in the run position!!!!
WTF?????
i couldnt shut the car off...i had to pull the fuse for the coile to stall the car, and then remove the battery cable so it wouldnt drain it!!!!

i guess my main question is...has anyone else ever expierienced this, and if so what did you do???
i dont want replace the ignition, because i really dont feel like pulling the steering column apart.
any suggestions on how to fix this problem would be awesome...and by the way, i cant get the key out of the ignition, so beating it out isnt an option!!!
hahaha
thanks very much!!!!!!

Hi 89coupe, everyone,

Welcome to TOC.


Not very helpful.

What were the original symptoms?

Regards, Norm

there were no original symptoms...thats the thing. i was having troubles with getting it started, so i changed the starter...not the problem. changed the solenoid...thought it was the problem...not the case. so i finally did the neutral safety switch...boom she fired right away. awesome...or so i thought. i went inside to turn the car off, and the key was stuck. it was sitting on the side of the road running, and i couldnt turn it off, thats when i pulled the fuse to stall it.

If the keyswitch is stuck, you are going to have to remove it. You'll have to tear into the column for this, and its probably going to be a rather big project.

If you have tried jiggling the key all you can, it will have to come apart. I would consult a service manual for this job, as it will be very intensive. If you don't have a manual, its the most valuable tool you can buy.

I think you have, or at least had more than one problem. The mechanical failure of the key switch probably has little to do with the ignition problem, unless there is wear on the contacts as well.

Sorry I can't be more specific.

Andrew

He is already aware of it.


He has, at least, two. The initial one he has been "fixing" by throwing parts at it, and the one he created when he replaced the switch. We do not know if he created any others.

I would want to be satisfied that the root of the initial problem was not in the column, before I took it apart the second time.

But, then again, with the practice gained from the first two times, the third should be a piece of cake.


No description, no help.


Nothing here either.


Starter and solenoid changes, improperly done, could have introduced another problem, or two.


By the same method he used to diagnose the "faulty" starters/solenoids?


Again, no reason given for this conclusion.

Having said (all) that: If the switch tested OK (like the starters, solenoids, and neutral safety switches) before the install, it should still be OK. Assuming the correct part for the application, I would look for the forkup that was made by the "mechanic".

Shift linkage would be a good place to start.

Norm

my buddy is a licensed mechanic, so i got him to come to my house to fix this damn thing...im getting really frustrated at this point.
the starter was the initial problemi rebuilt that, and the car started fine, then it stopped starting, so i was told by my friend to change the solenoid, so i did...again, it started fine...for a while. then again ti quit starting off the key, i could cross the solenoid, and it would start, so he determined it to be the solenoid, so we put a used one on to ge me mobile for a while till i bought a new one, which i did. but when i put the new one on, it started fine again, but the key got stuck on. the key was worn to the point of being ready to break in half, where it was the original key and ignition. could this have caused the problem????
i went and bought a new ignition tumbler, just wating till he gets off work to take the correct tool over to put everything back together.
but for future reference, would this extremely worn key have caused my problem????

Perhaps, but I would think it would be tough to turn on, rather than tough to shut off.

Repeating the same useless story, over and over, does not give us any useful information.


So now we know the original problem was misdiagnosed by a “licensed mechanic”. That fact does not lead us to the cause of your problem, but it does give us good reason to doubt his credibility.

Exactly what was the car doing (or not doing) that got your attention initially?
What did the mechanic observe when he first arrived?
What diagnostic procedures/tests did he perform?


You proved that it (and the starter) worked properly, and that the problem was elsewhere.


Interesting that a new part would malfunction, in the same manner as the one it replaced.


That should take care of the unrelated problem.


Unless it could mimic a faulty starter, No.

Norm

the whole problem was me...lol
when i was told by my friend what the problem MIGHT be, i went and rebuilt the starter, because it was dragging when starting, so that what led him to believe it was the starter...no problem, the brushes were worn right down to the screws...i rebuilt it, and off we went. about a week or so later, it just wouldnt start, so he then told me to cross the solenoid to see if it would start...it did, so i replaced the solenoid...it started again. another week later, same thing...it wouldnt start, but would if i crossed it...here is where my mistakes come in...i took the solenoid back, and got a new replacement, put it on, and nothing at all...nothing on the key, couldnt cross it...after two days of getting frustrated, and wanting to set the car on fire, i took the whole starter off again...for the fourth time, and took it to my dad...i wasnt in the door right, and he said i had the solenoid on backwards...it wasnt making a connection...we fixed it, put it back on, and again it fired right up.
the car would only go for about a week at a time before quitting, so here we are again, a week later, and not starting off the key...had power...would start iff crossed...took it to my buddy, he pulled the plug to check the neutral safety switch...he crossed it on the starter wires, and it fired with the key, but it wouldnt fire if it was still plugged in...thats when he put the used on to get me mobile again. it lasted a while this time, like three weeks. it was a cold morning, and the car was having trouble starting. when it wouldnt start, i let off the key, and then again...nothing...i pulled the plug off myself and crossed it, and it fired...so it seems like we used the spare to its full potential. i went out and bought a new switch, and it fired up like a new car...thats when the ignition wouldnt turn off...at this point im ready to push the car over the cliff into the ocean....i went out and bought a brand new ignition, had it installed, and now the car is starting like never before.
it hasnt started this good since we bought the car 2 years ago...but for the money i spent on it, and the price i paid for it, i think i may be into the car for less than $1800 canadian, and the car is in amazing shape.
but good to go now, thanks for all help.

but i do have one more question!!!
i had to boost the battery in the car to get it to start, it was like it wouldnt take a charge so i switched the batteries from my mustang, and the same thing happened...but once all the new parts were installed, i picked up an old battery i had laying in the grass in the backyard all winter, cleaned the terminals, she fired right up!!!
why is that???
its also charging at like 14.5 on a battery that was not in a car for more than a year.

Good to hear your car is running dependably.


Your personal problems are not related to any loose/faulty wire connections your car might have.


That he gave you only one of several possible answers, makes his advice useless.

That he made a diagnosis, without knowing/understanding the symptoms, shows his incompetence.

That he did not advise you to (as well as, how to) verify the condition of a part, before replacing it, shows he is less than incompetent.

That he scammed you into believing he "had a clue" was not your fault.

On the positive side, it appears, he is well qualified to pass out advice on the internet.


How is it possible to install a GM solenoid backward and how did you fix it? Since you are capable of rebuilding a starter, why didn't you just rebuild it?


Same as the other times you fixed it?


There are many explanations. In order to give you the right one, we would need to know the specific circumstances.


Based on the information given, you replaced a low, or dead, battery with, with one with an adequate charge. The fact that you cleaned the connections could indicate faulty connections on the one you replaced. If so, replacing it, was a further waste of your time.

Where, or how long, it was stored has nothing to do with anything.

It is, however, an outstanding example of a "red herring".


Anything over 13.7 would indicate a faulty charging system, or a gauge malfunction. Could be related to the problem you seem to have solved.


See my above reference to "red herring".

Norm

around 14.4v is completely normal.

TOC Admin
Brando

Looks like things have changed, since I went to school.

Thanks for the update.

things may have changed, but its all good...i did rebuild the starter myself, but whe i had to take the starter off the second time to put the new solenois on, i put it on backwards...the little lip was supopsed to be hooked into the side of the starter, and the power connection on the side of the starter was not hooked up to the solenoid...i dont know how i managed to put it on backwards, but i did. i just finished an autobody refinishing course last january, with a small amount of electrical training, and the instructor told us tah anything between 14.25-14.75 is normal, so like i said, things may have changed...again tho, no matter....shes running like a new car and the wife is happy...she isnt at me as soon as i wake up anymore to get he car fixed for her....if it was my car, it would be gone...but where she works 2 jobs with odd shifts, i cant give her my car, and she also cant drive standard, so no chance of her hurting it on me!!!
lol
but i think what was going on with my buddy is the same as whats going on here....he is an amazing mechanic, i just think it was lack of info that led to the misdiagnosis you spoke of...but everyone is happy now, and i really appreciate all the help you gave me!!!
thanks alot guys and girls!!!
im sure you'll be hearing from me soon!!!
take care all!!!

Yes it has. Stopped by a general repair shop today, and talked to the owner.

As far as he remembers, the change was made during the late eighties, in order to accommodate the advanced electronics.

Good thing to keep in mind, if someone asks about a car from that era.

Norm