I am not the only moderator. I could have taken action a long time ago, but I was involved in the discussion, so that would reflect poorly on me. My "philosophy" of moderation is to allow freedom of expression within the rules of the forum. If I am directly involved in a discussion, then I don't act, I let one of the others do it, if they feel the need to do so.

If you would like to discuss my actions as a moderator, start a new thread.

Let’s lay this to rest once and for all. This will be laid out as systematically and as logically as possible, to cover all sides.

First post-



Response-



Is that offensive to you?

Then again-



And-



To the person that reads what is there, and not what isn’t, this is an apology for your language, not the content of your first post.

Norm’s response to your criticism of his “approach”-



He did nothing to offend you in the first place, so you have no basis to judge him. By judging him, you open the door to get the same treatment. Again, this is what someone would read, if they read what’s there.

Now we pick it up in the L67 swap thread, where we pick up the next big argument-




And you get the response-


Perhaps it would be beneficial to define child. A child will not take responsibility for his wrongs. A child makes threats (IE “Im telling!”) You were acting like a child by pointing the finger back, instead of accepting that you were wrong. If you felt that you weren’t acting like a child, that would have been the subject of a new thread in the off-topic lounge, or the subject of a PM.


You continue in the digression with statements such as:



So as you continue to load statements, such as the one above towards those that ask questions, you have the right to demand respect? Especially when the people, with more knowledge and experience than you, point out a flaw in your post, in a professional manner?

You have shown, in countless other threads, and other boards, your desire to argue for the sake of arguing. (Of course, it is always everyone else picking on you, it must be purely coincidence that everywhere you go, people see through your line of internet BS.) You compose some BS statement that is full of holes, and then someone asks a question, and you bitch, cry, and fight about it, but never defend it, or explain it, until the thread is confusing and trashed. I have asked you more than once to PM any additional OFF TOPIC comments you may have, or start other threads.

I have read all these threads about 15 times each, and I still can’t see how 88 Coupe is the aggressor. You started it, and you are still going with it. 88 Coupe has only responded in those specific threads, to the specific context. If you think I am wrong, post the quote, don’t type some half intelligible off the cuff comment.

I have offered you advice to try to deter this, but, like a child, you don’t listen.

Give it a rest, nobody is going to side with you, except the other trolls.

If you think I am wrong, take the time and compose a reply, complete with quotes. Show me where you have been attacked first, and explain your position clearly. Refrain from interjecting any loaded statements. Use spell-check, capital letters, and punctuation. That is how an efficient discussion works.

Actually, this is a very liberal forum, and Brando affords us a lot of freedom of expression here. I challenge you to provide proof of a bias towards any individual. If I thought your bitching was justified, I would not be taking my own time to post.




Show us an example.



He said "depending on who you talk to". This is a fine example of what happens when one does not read what is there, but rather what is not there.



The only people that react to him the way you do are the trolls that can't take being told they are wrong, or can't take being questioned intensely about a subject. These trolls are typically the type that rattle off all their Internet information to make it seem like they know all there is to know. A wiser person than I once told me, "If you think you have all the answers, all the questions haven't been asked."




Where? Cite an example.




I think you mean that you think the moderators put the blame on the person that reacts (usually by flaming) instead of the person that asked the question? If you can cite an example of where 88 Coupe has started anything with you, other than legitimate questions, then I will moderate it. Otherwise, I agree- The person that flames back like a child instead of answering the question is at fault.

But I'll bet that's not what you meant, but your grammar is a bit unclear.

Your use of fonts was not necessary. I can read comprehensively, and do not need things pointed out to me. If you feel the need to clarify a point, skip your off-topic modifiers, and stick to the facts.

Only if the person is flaming them, and acting childish. Also I am assuming you mean "basis" and not "business". If I am wrong, please correct me.



Yes, that is the PM I sent 88 Coupe. How does that make 88 Coupe a hypocrite?



That was not an apology, see my first long reply.



You are the only one complaining about it. You call him clown, and I have yet to see a complaint from him.



After you attacked him. How does that require him to respect you, or oblige to your request?


This is a great example of your off-topic loaded statements. If you would have chilled the fuck out, like I advised you to, it also wouldn't have escalated any further. Instead, you had to keep going.



Show me where, and how it is "egging him on". Is agreeing with facts "egging on"?

I agree with the facts, regardless of where they come from. You still don't realize that I was supporting your turbulence debate from a purely academic standpoint, do you?



Funny you should say that. You could stand to do the same.





Again, you are the only one complaining.



Yet another good example of your ability to stay on topic. Like I already said, show me specific examples of my bias, and I will correct them.




Since you are the initial aggressor, why is that his responsibility?



You can keep trying to pass the blame on me, but it won't make it true. (And you wonder why people call you childish??) Same with the bias challenge, show me where I am unprofessional in moderating, and I will fix it.




So you are saying we should ban you?



It lasted a whole day or two. After that, you couldn't contain yourself.



It was as relevant to the topic, as what you were posting. It was also after you flamed him, again. I asked him where they came from, then drew my own conclusions. How did I egg him on? If I made any mistake, it was not PM'ing that question.

You weren't complaining about it either. In fact you chose to defend it.



So long as he is posting in a proper manner, yes. He has yet to, as far as I can see, make an outright attack at you, without first being belittled or attacked first. If I am wrong, post the quote, and I will go fix it.

Good start.

We can begin with your first grievance. If you have more, we can discuss the next after we finish with the first.

Simply post the quote, and its source, so everyone is on the same page, then we can discuss it in an adult manner.

For reference, reread my opening post. Here is #7 again:


And here is #9 again:


The reason it is done this way, is to insure accurate communication. It is the same protocol that has been in use since Algore invented the internet. No one disagrees with it except trolls who wish to misquote statements/questions, in order to make them conform to their bogus replies.

1. This is not the only forum/board/list I participate in.
2. My posting style emulates my verbal style and they do not vary from site to site, or from venue to venue.
3. Out of 31 groups I belong to, one administration disagrees with my posting style. For that reason, I do not post on that site.
4. My reaction to any post is dictated by the content of that post. Nothing more, nothing less.

Yes, here is an example:

http://www.oldsconnection.com/forum/vie ... 1882#21882

Just as you stated, the BS is (in the quotes) on top, and the the truth is in the replies. Which is, as it should be.

Norm

I will reply in bold to seperate my post in this message-91parkave


[B]Andrew if you read threads 15 times over, you would have noticed by now what im saying is true. Truth to be told you, me,and norm will never agree, on anything related to this, you see what you want to see, ive tried to convey my standing to you and you act like you understand but then flip as soon as your buddy gets on me again. so oh well guess itll be the same shit over....and...over.....and....over.

post the quote? i dint see how chilidsh lies, behavior and other comments belong in an automotive forum....

And the content is still an unwarranted flame. You are calling someone that asked you legitimate questions stupid for doing so, and then you tell him to kiss your ass, which even if you worded it without swearing, it still means kiss your ass.

The way I read it, you are the asshole, not him. He has only reacted.



On what basis? Was it even on topic to mention it? The guy asked you a question, and you freaked out. It's as simple as that. Then you have the balls to tell him his approach was wrong.



I think you should look at the other threads again, and consider this statement.



Have you ever considered maybe its because you keep attacking him?



Like I mentioned already, show examples, and they will be corrected if it truly is biased or hypocritical.



You must have missed "such as" above it. You keep poking the bear with your statements, and the adjectives and modifiers you use. If you keep poking the bear, the bear will bite back. If you were poking the bear, then how can you complain that the bear bit you?



And again, you attacked first, so how can you complain that you have been disrespected after you threw the first punch?



Where? Show an example. Do you think he should instantly take a liking to you after you attacked him several times with no justification? If it happened to you, would you do that?

What "crap" of mine do you have to tolerate? Aside from a few smart-asses jokes, I have been nothing but professional in my disagreements with you.



Then why do it?



Its only a problem, when you make it a problem. If you don't want to answer questions about what you post, then don't post, or don't reply. It takes two to tango. The only thing that I have tried to do is to make sure that truthful information, and good advice is being given. If I question this, I will comment accordingly. Perhaps the reason you didn't get more replies is because nothing more needed to be said?



If you have actually read any of them, you would know how funny that statement is.



Only because you are too bull-headed to see whats in front of you.



I read everything twice before I reply. I see what's there, without emotion.



I tried to smooth it out, because you keep trashing threads with BS. I left it to you two to work it out after my initial effort. You attacked first again, I am not going to hold your hand and spoon-feed you just because you don't like questions. If you aren't going to change, why should I try?

uh huh like i said your full of it especially for assuming what i had in my own PM box all the back in may, and you still like i said dont have all the facts so dont go there, not to mention bonneville club HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH OLDS CONNECTION!!!!!!!!!! get of their nuts and leave them at their webdomain.

Here it is again:


It is one simple rule. Even a child can understand it,

But for you, I even added extra clarification.

Here it is again:


Norm

Do you think it has anything to do with how you have attacked him repeatedly without justification?

http://www.oldsconnection.com/forum/rules.php This should help you understand how to post in a forum.



So let me see if I have this straight. You attack 88 Coupe. 88 Coupe retaliates. I tell you that you are in the wrong, you tell me I am biased. Doesn't make sense to me.



Or we could mention the fact that if a member of TOC is being flamed, why should any of the administration care if he retorts?



I would take action, but you started it.



Can you clarify what this is supposed to mean?



And still, you crossed the line first.



As many as necessary until either you see what is in front of you, or until you go away, whichever comes first.



Can you show me where I have gone off topic when it wasn't already done? If you can find such an example, can you find one where I didn't apologize for the thread hijack?



Is that a threat? I have it too.

Here it is-



And you didn't heed the advice. Now you are complaining again? I offered you a way out of it, you kept going.



Why does that matter? I never told him to calm down. I told him if he started it, I would appreciate it if he stopped. But, he didn't start it.



What parts of his reply, were untrue? Here it is-





Because you started it. Do you not see that?



That I agree with the facts, not who posted it.



When you start it, you're damn right its wrong for you to get mad that he talks back.



Did you read the part about how this is a pretty liberal forum?



Did you read the part about how this is a pretty liberal forum?



So you can dish it, but you can't take it? I would take it to the bank, but it would be a poor investment.



Yes, post the quote. Show me where you have been attacked first, and I will fix it. I don't see how your off-topic, childish replies belong in an automotive forum either.

No, he didn't. They have been established for a long time. They are, in fact, older than the internet.

Here is an example from my Computer Science class-



And here is a scan of the page that lists some basic rules of "Netiquette".



The rules listed by 88 Coupe, do not differ. There is one specific rule, however, which is #9. Post the quote. If he is entertaining ridicule about himself, he is entitled to know exactly what your bitch is. You can type whatever you want, but don't expect a reply.

Here is another fitting quote, from page two of this thread-

aight andrew you got it pimpin since i got me a grave. im going out swinging damn a truce or any kind of mutual reapect for norm as for you i know you mean well and i can stand what you have to say because i can respect that you at least call me by my proper registered name, as you can tell that is a huge pet peeve, but as for norm , well you know the rest. is there anything else? just in case i missed something

Would anyone like to translate it into English?

Norm

let me translate- Being the ass that you are i will not make amends towards you of any kind. Andrew i will at least respect because he can at least call me by the proper username. do you need me simplify that some more?